[QUOTE=KimchiNinja;1167929]Yeah I think everyone here understands; any vegans died off, nature kicked them out of our evolutionary line.
By the way, what the heck [I]is[/I] vegan anyhow? I thought vegetarians ate a lot of vegetables, but actually a lot of them just chow down on pasta and crap right? I eat more vegis than the avg vegetarian I bet. So what is a vegan, they truly only eat vegis? Or they eat only raw vegis or what? It's all so confusing...[/QUOTE]
There's no single "vegetarian" diet. There's a bunch of different varieties, all with plant-based foods at the center of their diet. Some vegetarians eat eggs, dairy or fish. Red meat is cut out completely.
Vegans take it to the extreme. They eat nothing but plant foods, and will go so far as to not wear leather or use any sort of animal products.
Vegans take it to the extreme. They eat nothing but plant foods, and will go so far as to not wear leather or use any sort of animal products.[/QUOTE]
So basically vegis, beans, potatoes, nuts?
I guess that's not the worst thing, toss some fish and eggs in there and it would be pretty sweet.
[QUOTE=phigment;1168039]I thought vegans also didn't wear animal products such as leather, etc.[/QUOTE]
Hmm interesting, I heard vegans sometimes wear druid-like cloaks and worship the tree god by the light of a full moon.
[QUOTE=skorpion317;1167536]Veganism becomes a cult for most of its adherents. The funny thing is, they never acknowledge the hypocrisy of veganism. Most vegans eat that way because they don't want to kill and consume animals. How many animals are killed when the combine harvesters roll through the fields? Rodents, birds, insects, etc., all killed and not put to use. Are those animals less important from an ethical standpoint than a cow or a pig?[/QUOTE]
Yup, they think that life is possible without death, which isn't what nature allows because there has to be balance
[QUOTE=evotell;1167414]Are you able to survive on a a raw vegan diet without taking supplements? If not then the raw vegan diet would be unsustainable in the evolutionary process.
We know that B12 comes from animals, however Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria in soil, so in theory as long as a raw vegan eat plenty of dirt they'd be fine.
The other question I have is why are so many raw vegans so defensive? My conclusion is they have built a life around what they eat and not who they are.
You might also consider Omega 3 DHA, there is evidence that long term vegetarians/vegans should supplement with "Vegan" DHA to minimise risk of dementia in later life.
Regarding the defensive position, yes their is a religious purpose there, but I find them quite angry and I think this is an actual neurological effect of their diet, basically their bodies are saying they need more nutrition, but their heads say they cant eat meat and the outcome is all they can do is be angry and it gets worse the longer they remain vegan.
[QUOTE=Zach;1167505]Yes its possible. When your diet becomes a religion, you get defensive. Not limited to just vegans..[/QUOTE] And what is your diet religion, pray tell.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1167871]This article shines some light on what exactly the substance we call "Vitamin B12" is... a compound found in feces that we would ideally never have to worry about being deficient in if we fertilized crops the old-fashioned way.
[url=http://www.tcolincampbell.org/courses-resources/article/b12-breakthrough-missing-nutrient-found-in-plants/]*B12 Breakthrough - Missing Nutrient Found in Plants*|* T. Colin Campbell Foundation[/url]
I'm not a raw vegan, that sounds miserable and awful (no sweet potatoes?!? no steamed aspargus with garlic? no thanks), but I haven't had meat or eggs since January (haven't had dairy in even longer) and I've never felt better. Doesn't mean I'll keep it up forever but it feels more right for me right now than forcing myself to eat meat when I didn't want to did. *shrug*[/QUOTE]
And from your God, T Colin Campbell at the bottom of the article:
[QUOTE]This was written in 1996. Now, 12 years later, I still don't know that this view whether this view is right. However, in the meanwhile, I have been influenced by two of my clinician colleagues, Dr. Michael Greger and Dr. Alan Goldhamer, that their understanding of the literature and their experience in the clinic suggest that B12 deficiency may be seen in vegans,[B] thus advocate B12 supplementation. I defer to their view[/B].[/QUOTE]
He's not my God by any means. He wrote an entire article explaining that B12 can be found in plant foods but he doesn't want to get sued by anyone. Not all vegan diets are the same. I don't eat soy, corn, packaged foods, anything like that, I eat rice or millet maybe 2-4 times a week, my diet is like 65/25/15 vegetables, fats (nuts and olive oil mostly, occasional avocado and dark chocolate), fruit. I know some local organic farmers whose animals fertilize their fields and I buy from them whenever I can. You should be more worried about the people here centering their diets around fucktons of CAFO meat and RBGH dairy than me eating spinach all day, IMO.
Things like fish have the health halo but Grok never had to worry about shit like this... [url]http://science.time.com/2013/02/15/tipsy-fish-when-anti-anxiety-meds-get-into-rivers/[/url]
I used to have a chart that featured a cow and explained what each of its parts are used for (everything from skin to blood to bones). Assuming it was accurate, it would be very difficult to be really "vegan".
"impossible to be a vegan" diagram...
[url=http://haphappy.com/2012/08/23/veganism-is-bullshit/]Veganism is Bullshit (PIC) | HapHappy[/url]
However... I don't think that the diagram is 100% accurate.
Many of those products are also available to vegans who want to search them out in "vegan friendly" alternates.
That's besides the fact that every processed food has an acceptable level of bug parts... and if they don't eat crustaceans they shouldn't be eating bugs. And all vegans I have known have eaten processed soy meat things. And I have known some veg/vegans who weren't at all above killing pest bugs which made me go "WTF? They kill them and don't eat them simply for being gross and pesty(flies, ants, cockroaches, mosquitoes), but won't kill and eat the water living equivalents?!" :confused:
Vegans are weird. That's all I've got.
There is not logic in that system as best I can tell from the ones I've interacted with.
Not directed at you 2ndChance.
I'm all for people doing what makes them feel the best. If your diet works for making you feel healthy that is great and that is the best reasoning.
The reasoning above where vegans kill bugs for being bugs but then say they don't kill crustaceans/shellfish because it's "wrong" to kill and eat meat is the oddness I can't grasp.
That's the one, cheers. I cannot claim the accuracy of it, though. And it is good you mentioned the bugs; I tried to tell a vegetarian about that once (actually it was a small group of them) but they didn't seem to get it.
I try not to think about all the bugs I have probably consumed throughout my life. I read something somewhere about the FDA actually having written guidelines as to the 'maximum amount of insects' allowed in various foods, canned mushrooms allowing up to 40 maggots (wtf!!!)
It is probably impossible to be 100% vegan, but I guess many vegans think it's fine because they aren't intentionally eating the bugs (I hope???)