Give me a good reason.
I guess this qualifies as trolling. I'm a hunter gatherer, and I'm browsing around my favorite grocery store: the wild. Give me a good reason not to collect wild grains and legumes. Give me a good reason not to locate a source of natural sugar. Give me a good reason not to dig up tubers. Give me a good reason not to eat [url=http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/796/2]birds[/url] and [url=http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lamb-veal-and-game-products/4628/2]boar[/url].
Predicted response: "All those things are totally fine, except the grains and legumes. We shouldn't eat those because they have [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7576161]antinutrients[/url]."
I wonder why all those things are fine, considering eating starch raises insulin, wild birds betray the magical o3-o6 ratio, and [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0]sugar is clearly toxic[/url].
See if you can spot the double standard anywhere.
I've read that the only reason that people have problems with grains and legumes these days are because of the quantities we enjoy them in. I think that, as a hunter/gatherer, you should be able to eat as many grains and legumes (as well as nuts, fruits, seeds, etc) that you can find! Today, though, people can purchase entire bags of beans that they may never be able to collect naturally; the same goes for grains.
Also, with all the energy you'd be using up hunting and gathering all this stuff, I'd imagine you'd need all the fuel you can get from any source at all! I think it is a bit ridiculous to demonize entire food groups blindly without taking moderation into consideration. Keep in mind, though, that when modern humans consume grains, legumes, high o6 nuts and seeds, and sugars, it would be exponentially more than what their ancestors could've ever dreamed of gathering in one day! Hope I helped and provided a different perspective, all trolling aside :D (and for the record, it's sometimes good to troll -- it provides a different point of view that might get some sparks flying in peoples' brains!)
[QUOTE=Cierra;1159579]Keep in mind, though, that when modern humans consume grains, legumes, high o6 nuts and seeds, and sugars, it would be exponentially more than what their ancestors could've ever dreamed of gathering in one day![/QUOTE]
I agree, but few in this community apply that same standard to meat consumption.
[QUOTE=Timthetaco;1159589]I agree, but few in this community apply that same standard to meat consumption.[/QUOTE]
Right... I can't be accountable for anyone else's consumption of any food. As for myself, though, I eat about 1-1.5lbs. of meat a day some days, some days less (or even none), very rare days more. Personally, I believe that I could handle sustaining this diet (respectively) out in the wild, provided I was taught to do so and practiced the skill....
Generally, though -- Sure, lots of people that follow this lifestyle certainly demonize specific foods and over-indulge on others. I think that as long as they are happily working toward their life goals and health goals, though, then maybe there isn't anything wrong with it, for a while? Who knows!
"All those things are totally fine, except the grains and legumes.[/QUOTE]
I'd say eat legumes and grains, but that would probably be just me.
[QUOTE=Timthetaco;1159573]I wonder why all those things are fine, considering eating starch raises insulin[/QUOTE]
So does protein.
wild birds betray the magical o3-o6 ratio[/QUOTE]
not really - just enjoy the meat
sugar is clearly toxic[/QUOTE]
Unsure about you, but I'd avoid them because they cause me severe pain. :p
I agree some people process some grains or legumes quite well but, if I were a HG and I had ate some whole grains or legumes (bar spelt, rice and green legumes), they would make me feel so unwell I wouldn't touch them again. So I wouldn't eat them.
Snacking on wild or traditional strains of grain and legume probably wouldn't be an issue, just bear in mind our bodies haven't really ever eaten them in such vast quantities, so side-effects may result. (Shouldn't every processed food have that on its label? :p)
I think it's time for Paleo to be more honest about Neolithic foods and many of their nutritional BENEFITS. Time to stop forming conclusions by association and using process of elimination to manage symptoms instead of treating underlying problems and their root causes. Fruit, white rice, potatoes, and beans aren't why so many developed countries are having chronic diseases of "civilization." I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Americans actually ate by the standards of the food pyramid, we'd probably be much, much healthier. Americans, if they do follow these guidelines, eat the bastardized versions of the foods recommended, e.g., "whole grain" Eggo waffles, nonfat CAFO yogurts, soybean oil salad dressings, rancid peanut butter, HFCS wheat breads, etc.
I think the poison is in the dosage (plus, the preparation and source) and also the individual tolerance threshold, not to mention the current state of one's health. If your digestive system is in a state of disarray from reasons that are unrelated to certain foods, but certain foods still aggravate the problem, then you have to fix the underlying problems and not blame the foods that just happen to make a bad situation worse. e.g., hot sauce aggravates your GERD, but are hot peppers the cause of it? Not always. One of my personal pet peeves is the way "Paleo" tends to group all grains into the evil gluten camp when gluten grains only represent a few grains, but then it tries to create a new label and call some grains "safe starches." Silliness. What's safe and delicious to one person might be pure poison to another. I say eat what benefits your health and eat what you enjoy; your personal formula will meet both of those criteria. It's time to stop vilifying certain foods and focus on what's actually beneficial without only focusing on the negatives. I think if we look at the negatives of meats, vegetables, nuts, seeds, AND their sources of origin (molds, distance, bacteria, length of time in storage or shipping vessels, unknown human contact, artificial light exposure) we'd find just as much to avoid, if not more in some cases! I'd eat rice and beans over CAFO bacon any day.
PS: And don't forget that Paleo/Primal isn't about "imitating" Grok as much as learning from him. Some of his habits may have been less healthy, or he may have been unable to adopt certain healthy behaviours. We learn from our bodies, our ancestry, modern tribes and science. Not from any single one of those sources but from ALL of them. :)
[QUOTE=Timthetaco;1159573]Give me a good reason not to collect wild grains and legumes.[/QUOTE]No reason except that the time and effort would be better spent going after something that is more nutrient dense. If this were not available, sure Grok's version of red beans and rice would do. Yes, there are anti-nutrients, but that is better than going hungry. We are adaptable.
[QUOTE]Give me a good reason not to locate a source of natural sugar.[/QUOTE]Oh, hell yeah. The African bushmen love their wild honey. The thing is you would have to risk getting stung by the bees while smoking them out, then share the honeycomb out for the whole tribe and this wouldn't happen every day. An example of a paleolithic "sensible indulgence".
[QUOTE]Give me a good reason not to dig up tubers.[/QUOTE] As far as nutrient density, these would probably be the first thing sought out in the absence of meat. (I dug up what they called "bush potatoes" with the bushmen ladies)
[QUOTE]Give me a good reason not to eat birds and boar.[/QUOTE]None. The O3/O6 thing is only problematic if you are eating CAFO meat and industrial seed oils thereby taking in too much O6.
Refined sugar, all the time, in excessive quantities is toxic. That is not the same thing as a bit of honey now and then. There is no double standard.[/QUOTE]