[QUOTE=magicmerl;1146180]Atkins was right.
His 'empire' got a bit carried away with the processed foods market.
That is all.[/QUOTE]
^ Excellent summary.
Everyone from Banting to Atkins to Taubes have been saying the same basic thing for 150years now, they are all correct. The best name is just to call it [B]Paleolithic Nutrition[/B] and stop all the individual names people are slapping on it to try to become rich/famous.
[QUOTE=Allenete;1146204]He may have a lot of conventional knowledge, the stuff our heads have been filled with since birth, but obvious he has low knowledge of what he's actually arguing against.
It is not about the carbs - it's about grains. I get plenty of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.[/QUOTE]
^this. also, for people who choose to go vlc (very low carb), fat ends up being their chief source of fuel.
as for the "weakness" your friend talks about, tell him that protein is what builds muscle, and I'll bet the average paleo/primal person eats twice the protein of someone on a conventional diet.
[QUOTE=Kaminokamen;1146195]ANYWAY! He is claiming that those on low carb diets are more weak and fragile because carbs = energy[/quote]
Carbs are how plants store energy. Fat is how animals store energy.
[QUOTE=Kaminokamen;1146195]He actually said that there was wheat back in the paleo era and that people shouldn't be taking away something that we've had for thousands of years.[/quote]
Give him a link (or read up yourself) on [URL="http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/"]Wheat Belly[/URL]. Modern high yield dwarf wheat bears little relation to it's ancestors.
[QUOTE=Kaminokamen;1146195]I like knowing that I caught him up in BS, it's like a personal win for me lol. [/quote]
Then you can easily catch him on saturated fat / cholesterol / heart diease too. Because blaming cholesterol for causing heart disease is like blaming firemen for fires.
[QUOTE=Kaminokamen;1146195]But the being low carb and being weaker, I don't want to believe this, because so many people are Paleo and have had so much success, and he is insisting that it's only meant to be no grains for a month or so and then go to low grains. Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Here's a secret: the 'only for a month' thing is a trick. If you try to convince someone who is addicted to grains to give them up, the subtext of a typical reply is 'you'll pry them from my cold dead hands'. Whereas people are prepared to try giving them up 'just for 30 days'. The 30 days is to give you enough experience actually being grain free to make an informed decision about whether you want to give them up longer term.
That said, I still eat modest portions of rice in the right meal, and it's a cereal. I still buy oats for my kids to eat porridge. Grains exist on a spectrum (with wheat at one end).
p.s. How knowledgeable can this guy really be, if he's repeating urban legends about Atkins?
Atkins had a few weeks of super-low carb, then increased, but paleo does not. They do say to try it a month and see if it works for you.
What I would say to your friend is more like: If I have way more energy on this diet and feel tons better, I'm going to go with it. Before, I had xyz (insert whatever negative symptoms you saw go away), but now I don't. So I'm going to stick with it as long as it's working for me.
There's not a ton he can say to that.
Also Atkins didnt die from his diet, he smashed his head from falling on ice.
I wish there was a like button here to show how much I appreciate all these comments! I'm not going to quote anybody specifically, but thank you all for not "going off" on me for lack of knowledge, it really makes me want to be a part of this community, and not just do the "diet." Thank you to everyone who comments and gave info, I still need to do the reading, and I will so I can learn more and do this correctly. My first day went pretty well, and I didn't crave bad stuff too much, so it's seeming pretty doable, but it's the first day. I'll see you guys on other threads. :)
[QUOTE=KimchiNinja;1146219]^ Excellent summary.
Everyone from Banting to Atkins to Taubes have been saying the same basic thing for 150years now, they are all correct. The best name is just to call it [B]Paleolithic Nutrition[/B] and stop all the individual names people are slapping on it to try to become rich/famous.[/QUOTE]
Banting and Atkins and Taubes have nothing to do with Paleolithinc nutrition.
Also, regarding "Atkins was right" . . . right about what? Like most people, he was right about a lot of stuff and wrong about a lot of stuff.
Atkins is a good plan. I don't care what anyone else says. He fought the fat-phobia and carb-o-philia when nobody else would and his message hit home with a lot of people. Yes, the company sells processed low carb products but they're not pushed in the way that slim fast, medifast, or nutrisystem hawks their stuff. The base of the plan is whole foods and the products are entirely optional. And eating an Atkins bar occasionally isn't the worst dietary transgression one can make.
Atkins and Paleo can be as different or as similar as you make them. I like the Atkins program and the structure of the plan from Induction to slowly adding more carbs and different foods. I just choose Paleo/Primal foods...which are perfectly Atkins legal as well.
Oh, and Dr. Atkins was right 40 years ago when he said eat animals and don't worry about animal fat. Dr. Cordain, Mr Paleo himself, only recently saw the light with regards to saturated fat. Just sayin'!
[QUOTE]Also, regarding "Atkins was right" . . . right about what? Like most people, he was right about a lot of stuff and wrong about a lot of stuff.[/QUOTE]
What was he wrong about?
[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]i'm with angel on this. atkins gets flogged on here, i guess because they sell products. so does mark.
if some "doing atkins" choose to make it about eating pepperoni chips with cheese melted on top all day, that's their fail.
atkins brought me to primal. i've never had a bar or shake and eat only whole real foods. i feel and function best on a low-carb version of primal.
* * i am NOT a 25-year-old guy who needs to 400 gms of carbs per day to function effectively, ya know?[/SIZE][/FONT]
Short reply to your friend's first point:
Paleo/primal is NOT Atkins.
Atkins is macronutrient ratios: starts VLC and increases carbs but stays lower than the traditional SAD
Paleo is food groups and food quality, nutrient ratios can be whatever you want them to be.
good luck and enjoy the ride