[QUOTE=eKatherine;1134332]It's a myth that all vegans eat mostly fresh vegetables and fruit. People who change their diet for reasons of ideology are often no more concerned about the quality of foods they put in their mouths than they were when they ate SAD. For people like this there are vegan processed and snack foods. And they do buy these foods, despite complaining about the high cost.
Of course not all vegans are eating healthy. Many tend to believe they are healthy based on what they exclude from their diet instead of what they include. I was referring to more health conscious vegans though.
People are vegans for two reasons, animal rights and health. The ones who are mainly vegans for animal rights are usually young and became vegans in high school and college. Although most of them don't think much about the health aspect, they use health as a way to prove they are right. The others who become vegan for health reasons are older like myself and are desperate to believe anything. I was in that latter category for several years. However my health did not improve. In fact it got worse. I was in the McDougall Program which touts itself as a high starch plant-based diet rather than calling itself vegan. Although many on the program claim it has improved their health, many have dropped out and those who are still on the McDougall Program are still fat and sick, but are in denial. They swear by not only Dr. McDougall's books, but The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. I know one person who became diabetic after going on the McDougall Program and another who had to have gall bladder surgery as a direct result of that diet. I know many others who became sick, including myself. I developed anemia and muscle wasting. When I left that way of life there was a minor uproar amongst those who knew me and were still vegan. I don't even try to persuade them to change, because I know they will not listen or read anything that disagrees with their views. My best advice is to just be a good example of health and fitness.
[QUOTE=grokgramma;1134366] When I left that way of life there was a minor uproar amongst those who knew me and were still vegan. I don't even try to persuade them to change, because I know they will not listen or read anything that disagrees with their views. My best advice is to just be a good example of health and fitness.[/QUOTE]
Quitting veganism and expecting to stay close to your old vegan friends is like denouncing god and expecting your church buddies to still hang out with you.
I don't believe Neal Barnard ever claimed to have reversed heart disease in patients. He is a psychiatrist by training and as far as I have read, the only real patients he's ever had were psychiatric patients. He does not have a clinic or hold office hrs. for patients. Dr. Esselstyn was a thyroid surgeon and the people he claims to have reversed their heart disease were a very small group. He has admitted that he kept some of them on Lipitor. While he has claimed that a low fat diet reversed their heart disease, the fact is that other foods were also limited. Ornish was the most successful at reversing heart disease on a low fat diet, but it was not a vegan diet. He always allowed for low-fat dairy and egg whites and in his book The Spectrum he even allows chicken and fish for those who do not have full-blown heart disease. But the one thing that all of them don't seem to talk about much is inflamation. It is one of the main causes of heart disease.
[QUOTE=statikcat;1134374]Quitting veganism and expecting to stay close to your old vegan friends is like denouncing god and expecting your church buddies to still hang out with you.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AntonioCal;1133319]So what is the argument against "low-fat vegan = heart healthy"?[/QUOTE]
I don't have one and really don't care enough about the issue to construct one.
What would I say?
"Pleased for you, darlin'", probably through a mouthful of ribeye.
[QUOTE=statikcat;1134350]Beta carotene, for most people, becomes vitamin A? Sure, it varies on the person but at high levels in foods like carrots, kale, and other vegetables I would bet most vegans are just fine.
Next time work on your snide comments so they make more sense. Then we can all know you realize what a calculator does and does not do.
Sorry, should I have said online nutrition tracker and vitamin/mineral calculator? That would have made it more clear that I was talking about a website like fitday or cronometer? Man, you sure got me there...[/b]
Snide comments in bold.
I think the argument would be along the lies of, "heart health is only one variable." There's much more to total health than narrowing it down to the heart. There are perfectly healthy vegans, but there are also perfectly healthy SAD eaters. Your heart can be perfectly healthy, but does that matter if your hormones are unbalanced and your digestion is impaired? I don't think you can focus on one system and ignore the others. They are all interdependent. I believe you can achieve optimal health on many different combinations of food. The big picture matters more than the smaller details which may or may not be an important factor in health and well-being.
[QUOTE=Balance;1133955]Nathan Pritikin commited suicide and there has been evidence that his low/no fat diet could be a major source of brain dysfunction including depression, among many other neurological problems. Other people who followed the Pritikin diet also felt severely depressed on it as well.[/QUOTE]
Pritikin had no known history of depression and was doing well right up until the late stages of his leukemia, which he kept in remission for over 20 years. I'm sure there's many that feel depressed on his diet, but I'm sure you'll find just as many or more on low carb diets. Dr atkins had heart disease and hypertension when he died.
[img]http://www.skincaretipss.com/29.jpg[/img]I love this stuff.