I think how people react to VLC is genetic. For instance if you're Irish or something like that and your culture has survived on potatoes for many years you'll handle the carbs better than an Inuit. Just like I think tropical people handle carbs better because fruits are plentiful and necessary for hydration and other things. This is all just a theory though of course...I'm no scientist.
[QUOTE=noodletoy;1131052][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]cutting out grains doesn't translate instantly to vlc. it's quite easy to be at 100+ gms of carbs with a bit of starchy tuber and fruit. i think many would do just fine between 50-100.
however, as pb mentioned upthread, and i have seen it too, many who try to go lower don't do what they need to do to succeed. for example, the simple necessity of replenishing electrolytes due to the diuretic nature of ketosis, slips through the cracks more often than i can count.
i am not trying to disagree that it's not for everybody and also agree that liver and kidney function play a vital role. but i only play a doctor on the interwebs. :)
Comment on cutting out grains etc was related to reducing inflamation not going VLC.
I agree there is a certain % that just do it all wrong, you can see a whole lot of newbies ATM who just want everything now and that is a recipe for disaster, your head can get it all, but it takes a while for your body to adapt and change modes, I think most individuals have some degree of metabolic damage that needs to be rectified before VLC.
Liver, kidneys, and the rest, there are likely numerous things that need to be rectified.
[QUOTE=BestBetter;1131086]I don't know about this one...in all of the bloodwork I had in my lifetime, my fasting blood glucose was always perfect. I also had bloodwork done after going VLC paleo, and my blood glucose was unchanged. So, no indication of any type of pre-diabetes, and I'm someone who doesn't thrive on low carb.
I also don't know about the leptin thing, either. When i was eating low carb, I never had satiety/hunger issues at all, ever. I just had crippling fatigue, depression, IBS, and hypothyroid issues. I don't know how to tell for sure, but I don't think any of that was related to leptin, since hunger signals were just fine.
Just to toss out my own possibly crackpot theory, when I was trying to figure out why I wasn't thriving, one thing I came up with was that I suspected my adrenaline receptors were downregulated (I don't have adrenalinic responses to situations that should provoke it, such as losing control of my car on ice, etc). As we know, adrenaline is needed to convert stored fat into usable energy, so maybe if this function is impaired for some people, they can't get adequate energy from that pathway.
I was (and still do) eating liver every week, in addition to a VERY nutrient dense diet that far exceeded the RDA in everything.[/QUOTE]
Your Blood glucose may well be perfect, but that doesn't mean you don't have an issue with glucose metabolism, that was part of the initial point, thyroid and even adrenals may interact to reduce demands just so blood glucose does remain consistant, Leptin levels can be way out before there is any obvious impact on Insulin or Glucose levels.
Leptin works in many different areas and also in concert with other hormones, so again, just because you felt your hunger signals were fine does not rule out Leptin resistance.
Adrenals may well have been affected, but I see the adrenals much the same as thyroid, they are acting in response to other underlying problems and yes they may well get fatigued through overuse and may need specific care, but the underlying issues need to be addressed. Downregulated adrenal receptors, could also be termed adrenal resistance, just a case of overuse possibly, I don't believe adrenalin is always required to release fatty acids, just in emergency situations the adrenalin is like a turbo to boost supply temporarily, and it may well be if your normal systems FFA release systems are down, then your body reverts to the Adrenals just to get through and if extended over a period this would result in Adrenal fatigue. Thanks for sharing your experience, adds plenty more to my considerations.
[QUOTE=codered5;1131112]I believe you made a similar thread once and i responded that you prob had an adrenal axis issue and most people who do poorly on LC prob do to some degree. Its your body, not the way of eating thats the problem. The reason your blood glucose was unchanged is bc the hormones produced by your adrenals, cortisol, norepinephrine,etc help prop blood sugar up. Once you remove carbs, you are asking your adrenals to do more in terms of stabilizing blood sugar. This causes Hypothalamus, thyroid and/or adrenal issues which is why you had fatigue, depression, etc. Once again, its not that anyone doesnt thrive on relatively low carb, its that carbs for you help your adrenal axis handle the load you place on it. And in recovery, the body tends to get worse before it gets better.[/QUOTE]
As I mentioned above, my feeling is the Adrenals, thyroid etc just respond to an underlying metabolic problem that causes the body to fail in the glucose metabolism, Diabetes or prediabetic conditions have strong corrolations with a variety of chronic diseases, for me this suggests that glucose metabolism may be a key factor in precipitating a variety of conditions and the variation in individuals merely defines the particular condition expressed.
[QUOTE=krsn89;1131117]Keto or VLC as a gateway... I never thought of it this way but this makes sense! I thrived on VLC/keto for months. I had boundless energy, didn't need that much sleep, I was never hungry, and I was feeling great all the time. But then I stopped thriving. I slowly noticed IBS symptoms becoming more pronounced, hair loss and other hypothyroid symptoms coming to light. I thought it was something that would just pass, or maybe I was doing something wrong or not eating something I should have been. After everything I had read, I believed that VLC/keto/ZC made the most absolute sense and that I whatever I was experiencing was something that would just pass. The IBS just got so debilitating after a certain point that I had to change something. Like canuck416, I'm also following the recommendations of the PHD and have noticed quite an improvement in how I'm feeling. I still engage in daily fasting (16/8, sometimes more) but the addition of starches has really changed a lot for me, in a good way. So maybe I was thriving on keto while I was more "damaged," but stopped thriving after that point.[/QUOTE]
My feeling is you were most likely borderline with your conditions and going VLC was just "The straw that broke the camels back" and hence precipitated a cascade of symptoms. Not sure I buy into the Gateway theory, VLC will definately speed up Fat Adaptation and this is fine if you are in reasonable health, but if your health is borderline, then it just may be the final stressor that precipitates a variety of conditions.
Personally I think it would be better for nearly everyone to just do a good 12 months straight Primal/Paleo before they consider IF or Ketosis, fine if you just drift into it, but if you are forcing it there is something wrong with that in my eyes.
[QUOTE=TCates190;1131231]I think how people react to VLC is genetic. For instance if you're Irish or something like that and your culture has survived on potatoes for many years you'll handle the carbs better than an Inuit. Just like I think tropical people handle carbs better because fruits are plentiful and necessary for hydration and other things. This is all just a theory though of course...I'm no scientist.[/QUOTE]
Potatos have only been in Ireland 300 years, this is only 10-12 generations hardly enough time for evolutionary adaptation, particularly when you look at the incidence of Coeliac disease in the middle east, the birthplace of agriculture, they suffer the same degree of "Wheat Belly" as the west and they've had 10,000 years to develop immunity
Most of us descend from a major cultural group that relied on some sort of a starch/grain to feed expanding populations. It could have been rice, oats, millet, corn, wheat, rye, barley, potatoes... whatever grew. But it had to be there. Growth = vegetarian source of protein and carb to keep people from wiping the land out with overgrazing (not that they do not wipe the land out with cultivation of crops, but whatever). Save for nomads of Mongolian steppes, I am hard pressed to think about a numerous cultural group that relied on animal proteins for sustenance. In all likelihood I have a drop of Mongolian blood somewhere, but it sure doesn't make me much better suited for low carbing. That's why it is always a bit funny to me when someone is making a case of: OMG, I am Asian, I am special because we eat so much rice or OMG, I am Italian, and we eat so much pasta.... 90% of us can come up with a cultural statement of this kind in relation to the plant source starch of choice.
My situation is very similar to yours. I started out very over weight and am now getting closer to my goal weight. About how many carbs a day have you found help your workouts? I may start slowly reintroducing carbs at least on BJJ days and see how it goes. Thanks![/QUOTE]
I have been taking in 2 medium-ish sweet potatoes after my Krav maga workouts, about 80g total carbs on top of the 25-30g I have from veggies alone. Sometimes I have plantains, sometimes white potatoes. I'm actually thinking.of going with white potatoes on a more regular basis, still 2 at a time (roughly 120g carbohydrates). Like I said before, just try it out and see what works for you.
[QUOTE=noodletoy;1130455][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]i have been eating vlc over 3 years. just had bloodwork done in february. my non-fasting glucose was 70 and all my thyroid numbers read great. b/p, etc. all good. i feel good too, so disagree with your position. however, i do realize everybody is different.
eta: plenty of on-line info that long-term ketogenic diets can be beneficial too, but others can use their own google-fu.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
There are different effects of low carb diets on different persons. I, for example, do poorly in the gym and I am always sleepy on a very low carbohydrate diet (meaning under 100 grams of carbs), so I always try to get over 100 grams of carbs and I instantly feel better.
I guess that it all depends on the person.
One diet could be optimal for a person while detrimental for another