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[QUOTE=not on the rug;1114901]truth
they i'd say that deadlifts, squats, and some sort of pullup/chinup/rope climb are the most fundamental human forms of movement aside from walking or running. for any able-bodied person, strength training should start with these 3 and expand from there.[/QUOTE]
This is true.
You can do squats without barbells. You can do it with just body weight to start and then hold a dumbbell in front or two up by your ears. Increase the reps to something like 12, then pick heavier dumbbells and start at 5 and work your way up to 12 reps again. Something like that will work.
Deadlift is great. I'm surprised what it does for my core strength. Makes me feel good too. It is the only lift I have done that gives me a reliable sense of satisfaction in regards to my progress. I'm pretty sure that deadlift and squats are the best way to get a nice round butt.
I hired a trainer to teach me how to use the equipment and how to do the lifts. She didn't teach me the same way that Rippetoe does them, but that's okay. Learning about using the equipment and having someone watch and let me know when I got to parallel or whether my back was rounded or whatever was really helpful since these movements were all new to me and even knowing what my body was doing was a challenge. Learning about gym rules was helpful. Just having someone there so I wasn't lost was helpful. I only needed her for 3 sessions so it wasn't too expensive. I think lifting barbells is fun, but if you really don't want to do it, there are way better looking women than me in the gym just using dumbbells and machines and doing chinups.
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[QUOTE=Cierra;1114530].8g-1g protein per 1lb. Body weight, plus 100g carbs, and the rest should be fat.
So, if you weigh 170lbs, you should get 140-170g protein (540- 680 calories of protein)
[/QUOTE]
Mark says .8 to 1 gram of protein for [B]Lean[/B] Body Mass (not straight up body weight) which would make a big difference in this calculation. Was that what you intended to say?
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[QUOTE=Gorbag;1114941]My point is only that nobody "ought" to do them, it depends on your goals, how you are built, and the totality of your training and also diet. Going above 5 reps on squat and deads and not too close to failure will not be that taxing of course. So I am not saying not do do squats and deads, but the new Starting Strength religion that everybody "ought" to do them is beyond retarded IMO...[/QUOTE]
I still disagree.
Everyone "ought to:"
- Avoid grains
- Avoid refined seed oils
- Avoid improperly prepared beans
- Get plenty of fresh air and sunshine
- Get plenty of sleep
- Walk several miles a day
- Avoid cigarette smoke
- Squat, deadlift and benchpress (I guess exceptions to this rule are para/quadriplegics and people missing arms and legs?
Will everyone do that? No. But I don't understand how anyone can disagree with any of that. You may not want to be a body builder. You may not want to have single digit body fat. But you should still walk and lift heavy weights. Regardless of aesthetic goals, they are good for 100% of us.
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Not everyone should or has to squat, deadlift, and bench.... beyond your small list of contraindications there are circulatory disease, osteoperosis, disc and spinal injuries, neurological and balance disorders.... and so on and so forth that could make these things detrimental to health. Strength training really can be built for each individuals current status and goals.
When you define goals most will find that lifting heavy weights in general is simply a means to an end (unless its your job). Get stronger and be healthy is usually the actual goal. My brother spends all day as an ironworker. He don't need to squat and deadlift in some gym EVER to be healthy and strong. If your argument is that everyone should be able to do these things when called upon then you may have a point, but they aren't the only tools in the shed when it comes producing strength.
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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;1114978]I still disagree.
Everyone "ought to:"
- Avoid grains
- Avoid refined seed oils
- Avoid improperly prepared beans
- Get plenty of fresh air and sunshine
- Get plenty of sleep
- Walk several miles a day
- Avoid cigarette smoke
- Squat, deadlift and benchpress (I guess exceptions to this rule are para/quadriplegics and people missing arms and legs?
Will everyone do that? No. But I don't understand how anyone can disagree with any of that. You may not want to be a body builder. You may not want to have single digit body fat. But you should still walk and lift heavy weights. Regardless of aesthetic goals, they are good for 100% of us.[/QUOTE]
It's not rational to do squat if your goals are to develop quadriceps and if leg-press or machine hacklift can give your BETTER quadriceps development than squats, or IF your butt/hips grows too big from squats and you dont want that, or that you taxes the lower back too much due to long femurs etc., ad infinitum, so it all depends on lots of individual factors whether squats is the best solution or not! And if it's not optimal related to your goals why continue to do them?
So to repeat myself: Nobody ought to do squats, benchpress or deadlift, but do them if they fits your goals!
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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;1114891]Everyone should do squats and deadlifts because they are the two most effective exercises at building lean muscle mass and strengthening the entire body in one single movement...this is the most effective way. If you want to do something less effective, feel free to do that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=not on the rug;1114901]deadlifts, squats, and some sort of pullup/chinup/rope climb are the most fundamental human forms of movement aside from walking or running. for any able-bodied person, strength training should start with these 3 and expand from there.[/QUOTE]
Yup. And yup.
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Fat loss is 100% diet. Adding muscle and improving health, that's where fitness comes in. I could starve down to bones sitting right here in this chair and be lazy the whole time.
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[QUOTE=Neckhammer;1115000]Not everyone should or has to squat, deadlift, and bench.... beyond your small list of contraindications there are circulatory disease, osteoperosis, disc and spinal injuries, neurological and balance disorders.... and so on and so forth that could make these things detrimental to health. Strength training really can be built for each individuals current status and goals.
When you define goals most will find that lifting heavy weights in general is simply a means to an end (unless its your job). Get stronger and be healthy is usually the actual goal. My brother spends all day as an ironworker. He don't need to squat and deadlift in some gym EVER to be healthy and strong. If your argument is that everyone should be able to do these things when called upon then you may have a point, but they aren't the only tools in the shed when it comes producing strength.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I still disagree.
Circulatory disease and osteoporosis? One of the primary causes of these things are a lack of weight training. Study after study have shown that men and overweight women are resistant to osteoporosis because the additional weight carried keeps bones strong. Osteoporosis is prevalent in thin, older women. Weight training will improve both substantially by increasing the size of blood vessels and promoting bone growth and development. People that lift rarely ever get osteoporosis.
Spinal injuries? So? Don't squat with heavy weight/any weight. Doing body weight squats and simply deadlifting a bar will improve ROM and flexibility without putting stress on weak joints. Both movements are great for physical therapy.
Neurological disorders? Huh? Maybe narcoleptics shouldn't be squatting. But what percentage of the population are they? Instead of focusing on the 0.5% of people that shouldn't be doing these movements, how about we focus on the 99.5% that should be? So many people on this forum love to try and tear down an argument because of some rare exception that virtually no one belongs to. Let's focus on reality, here.
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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;1115012]Maybe narcoleptics shouldn't be squatting.[/QUOTE]
Certainly not without a proper squat rack and correctly placed pins.
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[QUOTE=Neckhammer;1115000]Not everyone should or has to squat, deadlift, and bench.... beyond your small list of contraindications there are circulatory disease, osteoperosis, disc and spinal injuries, neurological and balance disorders.... and so on and so forth that could make these things detrimental to health. Strength training really can be built for each individuals current status and goals.
When you define goals most will find that lifting heavy weights in general is simply a means to an end (unless its your job). Get stronger and be healthy is usually the actual goal. My brother spends all day as an ironworker. He don't need to squat and deadlift in some gym EVER to be healthy and strong. If your argument is that everyone should be able to do these things when called upon then you may have a point, but they aren't the only tools in the shed when it comes producing strength.[/QUOTE]
THIS
So agree.
Choco - what about people who already HAVE these conditions?? I could not do the workouts you recommend, yet working around age, old injuries & health issues, I've managed to build more muscle and haven't gone near a barbell.
