Please. I got plenty of people giving me a hard time when I was vegetarian. I got teased and mocked and people were dangling chicken and eating it in my face. Everything goes both ways. If you make a stand, you will always see the other side as a conspiracy against you. It's paranoia.
[QUOTE=magicmerl;1093438]Why does anybody need a reason for an ideology?[/QUOTE]
Think of veganism as a religion. Some vegans may think they're eating the healthiest diet available, but I don't think any went vegan JUST for the health aspect. The most important reason for going vegan is ethical: do not hurt animals. A vegan can be incredibly unhealthy, KNOW their poor health is down to their unnatural diet and would rather use an artificial supplement than risk harming an animal. Almost every one of them is of the philosophy that "humans and animals are equal, but humans are thinking animals who can make supplements, so we shouldn't hurt other animals".
Some are happy to have their belief and follow it on their own, some think they're as healthy as it gets, some think they aren't 100% healthy, but that they've found the "happy middle-ground" between health and ethics, some supplement, some do not, some may want to talk to you about it, in case you're interested. Most vegans are courteous and respectful and, when told you aren't interested, back down. But there are some fringe lunatics who, like any religious zealot, want to "prove" that their way is the only way and "convert" all us "sinners". Just as enough demand can get evolution taught as "just a theory" in some creationist Christian communities, enough vegans in medicine (or just lobbying or funding) can get studies published saying veganism is the only natural way for humans to live.
And, like any religion: if you're not interested, ignore them.
I agree with this. Vegans are a bit more "religious" about their diet than we are - its to save the poor animals!!!
Of course, we love animals too - its just that we love to EAT them...
[QUOTE=s-piper;1093683]As if most people really care about that when it comes to their ideology! ;-)
And that is why they suck.
Why do you do X? Just because.
[QUOTE=CaptSaltyJack;1093429]I'm just throwing this out there, even though it might be totally crazy. I wanted to bounce it off you guys and see what you thought.
I was thinking recently, why is there a vegan agenda. Why are they so hell-bent against meat, why do they want to push so hard for people to convert, by putting out books and documentaries? I'm wondering if there's any weight to this: is it possible that Monsanto is somehow involved, and wants to put meat out of business so that there's more land available for soybean crops instead of livestock? I mean, what a perfect win for them, right? Everyone gets scared of meat and goes vegetarian or vegan, and soon we're all eating soy-based crap.
If not that, then why? Why are there people pushing the vegan agenda so hard? What's in it for them?[/QUOTE]
Monsanto's biggest customers are livestock. Soy, Corn and Alfalfa are huge in the livestock feed industry and why they went after those.
I used to be a super militant vegan. I still have a tattoo that says "Vegan Revolution" on the back of my neck. Yeah, it was pretty bad. I wouldn't say there is a conspiracy though. I have a number of vegan friends who will not eat anything other than raw organic and would never in a billion years support a crappy company like Monsanto or Cargill or any of those larger named companies. Their ideology is just like any other. Unfortunately, when you don't generally ascribe to that way of thinking, having to hear about it over and over again can drive you nuts. Like I said, I have a number of friends who are super militant or at least feel very strongly about their views and won't hesitate to tell someone they are a murderer because they eat animals (equating humans and animals as equal - hence the term murder). They will also post horrible looking propagandistic photos of animals who are being used for food - in an industry - even as a meat eater on a Paleo/Primal diet - one typically would try not to support. Anyway, there are my two cents.
[QUOTE=Forgotmylastusername;1093812]That's even more ridiculous than saying that paleo is just a conspiracy by the meat industry[/QUOTE]
Yeah seriously, why do you REALLY eat meat? ;)
Pythagoras was the first person to popularise a meat-free diet, which he advocated for a myriad of spiritual reasons. It was called the Pythagorean diet, and became known as "vegetarianism" in the 19th century.
You'll find that many veggies and vegans have a spiritual leaning which promotes this way of eating. In a nutshell, eating meat is reputed to bind you to the earth. Abstaining from it is supposed to elevate you to a more etheral way of being. That's how I became a vegan anyway (note: it didn't work ;))
I definatly think that most vegans do it for the 'do no harm' thing and there are a lot of environmentalists that are vegan or veggie.
TBH if the facts stacked up then I would be vegan or veggie for environmental reasons, probabaly vegan except for my own eggs. But IMHO the facts don't stack up.
I have heard that slave labour is used when soy is grown, and what about all the pesticides from growing conventianl food, how many feild mice die in each wheet harvest etc etc.
You can't have a sustainable farming system without using animals to close loops, grass grows really well without any input other than grazing to manage it, esspeically in the UK, permanant pasutre and hay meadows are very good environmentally and I can't eat grass, yummy yummy cows and sheep can though.
Most vegans I know eat a lot of imported food, including soy and other protien sources and lots of fruit from far away, which equals big air miles. 90% of my diet comes from the UK, meat is UK, most veg are UK, so really just some fruit (mainly for the kids and we get what is in season when available) coffee, chocolate and tea (all stable, low volume products that could easily come by sea, blown by the wind post running out of oil)
So that's where I stand - ideally I'd eat a diet of sustainably farmed organic local produce, as it is I get as close as I can afford, make sure the kids get plenty of fruit and have some luxary foods such as tea, coffee and chocolate.
I grew up in a "meat is murder" town. I honestly question the sanity of some of these people. I mean really? They honestly care what a chicken thinks in its last moment of life? A CHICKEN! Obviously did NOT grow up around chickens. They have some weird notions of how "all" meat is raised and butchered to. I once told a vegan that I only eat happy cows because - as often as possible - I eat grass fed free range beef from a local ranch on Hawaii - to which she immediately replied "OH, I am sure they are sooooo happy when some *expletive* rancher strings them up to a tree and slits their throats till they bleed out." This is probably true. Regaurdless, farm animals are on earth to feed people! A cow is not in any other animals food chain. Its bizarre to me that a lot of vegans and vegetarians claim their diet to be all natural but they eat soy - a wretched form of fermented bean curd with the consistency of watery chalk - which I don't think is exactly natural. My other favorite argument I read in a book once claimed that humans are not supposed to eat meat and its soooo obvious because our jaw and our bodies are not designed to run down living prey and drag it to its death. This author has apparently never seen a sea otter use tools to eat shellfish but I suppose the sea otter shouldnt be eating that either.
In my opinon, if you want to be a vegan or vegetarian or whatever, hey, its a free country do what makes you happy. All I ask is that some of these people, especially where I grew up, not stand around across the street from my favorite burger joint and try to tell me that the beef I am eating is tainted by Satan and I am a murderer because I consume cow flesh and organs.
I think they just care about animals?! Not sure there's some "agenda"... some people just don't believe animals should be killed for food or exploited by people.
(Yes, I'm an ex-vegetarian/vegan... and yes, I did it because I didn't want animals to die for me and I believed that humans should eat vegetarian... now I believe otherwise but I still don't LIKE that animals have to die for me to eat!)