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[QUOTE=bloodorchid;1091617]why would you want the kid to cry out?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't.
But I read the OP's original post on this topic... and that seemed to be his aim.
And it has seemed to be the aim of every single spanking I've ever been party to or witnessed either in person or in the media.
Making the child hurt, react, cry out, leave a red mark, shed some tears... whatever.
What about the kid who does NOT react to the smack?
Was it the smack, or the child?
I'll give you two guesses what the reaction of the spanker is in that situation BTW.
*Hint: It's definitely not "Oh, OK... you've already been punished so you're done." At least not IME.
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if the actual aim is to make the kid cry or scream, it's abuse
if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much or just doesn't care
in which case spanking is not effective, and it is time to try time outs with nothing to look at or listen to but barney. vintage barney.
when they start tremulously singing along to Clean Up then punishment is complete
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[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091627]These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.[/QUOTE]
Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!
Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.
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[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091627]These types of comments are actually frightening to me. And we wonder how and why atrocities of war crimes existed? Exactly for this reason. Humans who are capable of inflicting physical, mental, and emotional trauma on other humans beings have gone down in history in crimes against humanity. It starts with control and physical abuse against children and escalates from there. This is a frightening topic and I'm disengaging from this discussion. Adults who assault animals and other human beings -- and justify their behaviour with "they deserve it" are frightening individuals.[/QUOTE]
...um... okay?
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[QUOTE=bloodorchid;1091628]
if the kid does not show any emotion to spanking then i would guess he's either been spanked too much [/QUOTE]
Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29[/url]
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My father never, ever hit me. I love him dearly. I respected him, looked up to him, enjoyed being his child, and wanted to please him.
My mother vented frustrations on me frequently. Screaming, yelling, hitting. I was afraid of her. I have memories of locking myself in the bathroom to escape her, and she would be pounding on the door, screaming. I have a startle reflex to loud noises and aversion to loud voices.
I raised both my kids without violence; they are 21 and 22 now and we have loving and kind relationships, and they both neat people whom I admire.
By the way, my only sister was 9 years younger than I. I had to watch my mother behave in the same way with her. I remember being in the hallway, with my sister locked in the bathroom, watching my mom screaming at her, and me, sobbing in the hallway begging her to stop.
Sadly, we lost my sister to suicide in 2001 after a lifetime of emotional difficulty.
I have no idea if 'swatting' or 'spanking' in a controlled way without anger is effective or good, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I and my sister experienced was a horror. I have done well and good in my life despite my mother's behavior, not because of it.
Pea
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i've experienced normal parenting and i've experienced abusive parenting, i know :)
[QUOTE=YogaBare;1091634]Yup. It's called disassociating. "Leaving your body". It's a coping mechanism. And it has subtle, far reaching consequences into the person's future life.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29[/url][/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=YogaBare;1091630]Ummm... are you inferring that I advocate violence against kids from my comment?!
Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.[/QUOTE]
I'm not referring to any comment or position that you may or may not hold. I've clearly stated my comments on this topic and I'm withdrawing from any further comments. I'm proud to have raised 4 successful young human beings -- without any physical abuse. All children are unique -- all had their challenges growing up and all who are contributing in a meaningful way to humanity as adults (with the exception of one who has passed away from cancer). I have delighted in, and worked with youth my entire life. I love youth and their individual ability and desires to buck conservatism. I thank God every day for our youth --- because they are our future. We need kids who think differently --- who don't comply with 'our thinking'. I love youth who want more than what we have --- who want differently than the "things" that we value. We are a materialistic generation and our kids think differently -- Thank God for that. Give our children the freedom to grow -- the freedom to think differently -- and the respect they deserve. Our kids MAY NOT THINK LIKE US and that's a good thing -- because this world needs a lot of change to make it better. The end. I'm now withdrawing.
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^ well, you [I]did[/I] quote me so it wasn't a leap to presume that statement was directed at me.!
Nothing to withdraw from from me FYI - I happen to agree with you.
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[QUOTE=cori93437;1091615]And what do you do to the kid who doesn't respond with the expected "pain" out cry from your spanking?
What if they show no response at all?
That happens too.[/QUOTE]
My father has told the story of going through a grocery store with me when I was 2-4 years old. Young enough that I don't remember any of this, but old enough that I was starting to be me. I was acting up, and he was doing the "stop or you'll get a spanking," thing, but I ignored him. Finally, he did swat me. As he tells it, this was my response...
He says I turned to glare at him and said, very loudly, "You brute!" That was it.
He says he got some very strange looks from fellow shoppers about that.
Physical punishment didn't work on me. I tended to be somewhat stubborn when approached that way. My parents adapted and used techniques that I think worked out OK.
[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091645]We are talking different beasts. Everyone has the right to protect themselves. Can a 4-year old protect themselves against an enraged parent? I think not.[/QUOTE]
Who says the parent is enraged? That's just silly. Maybe you had lousy parents....
