[QUOTE=Mr.Perfidy;1091608]Why are you equating hitting someone with abuse?!
Reading some of these arguments is making me want to abuse some posters, so that they can log back in and say something like,
"Oh I see...there is getting hit, and there is being abused."[/QUOTE]
<sigh>. Fine, there's a third category. Spanking, hitting, beating. In my view they're different points on the same scale, the differentiating factor being rage.
[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091607] Physical abuse stems from a lack of perceived control.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. But then how do you show those pesky kids who's boss?? ;)
[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091607]Well, let me ask this question: How do you know the child understood what your expectation was? And if the child did understand and didn't comply--- how does that justify being slapped around? [/quote]
Same as with an adult. They have to be able to express the expectation in their own words, in a way you agree with. That's the only way you ever stand a chance of knowing that you are understood. If you ask someone to do something, and you don't get a paraphrase of your request back, you have no right to complain about whatever they do to fulfill that request. At that point they didn't fail, [i]you[/i] failed to ensure understanding of your request.
As for justification... if you explain to a child that climbing on the roof is dangerous and that they are not allowed to climb on the roof, and you come home from work to find them up on the roof, you are now faced with a challenge... you need to convince them that even though they have now successfully done something you told them not to (which means they know they can do it again), that the risks are not worth whatever reward they see. One way to do that would be to wait for them to fall off the roof and then lecture them if they survive. Another would be to punish. How you punish depends on the kid and for some kids causing physical pain is a valid approach.
[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091607]I do not condone physical abuse of any sort ---- in any relationship. There are alternatives to physical abuse.......and there is no reason -- EVER -- to strike a child, a spouse, a friend, an interviewee or any other human being. We do not learn from being struck in the bum face or any other areas of our body. Physical abuse stems from a lack of perceived control.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't accusing you of condoning physical abuse. It's just that the scenario you painted described something as "punishment" when it was really causing harm. That made me wonder if you understood that punishment and harm are very different ideas. Physical abuse and physical punishment are not related concepts even though they could involve the same physical movements of your arm.
you send in shaggy and scooby to foil all their evil plans?
And what do you do to the kid who doesn't respond with the expected "pain" out cry from your spanking?
What if they show no response at all?
That happens too.
why would you want the kid to cry out?
[QUOTE=bloodorchid;1091617]why would you want the kid to cry out?[/QUOTE]
Sadly, that is some parent's goal.
[QUOTE=PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess;1091548]I don't believe that "it depends on the child." It depends on the parent. If a parent hits and the lesson ends there, of course the deviant behavior can continue. If parenting were as easy as hitting=success or guilt=success, we would have a world full of successful, well adjusted adults. But there is more to it than that. We have parents that hit without remorse or love and parents that coddle and never teach independance.[/QUOTE]
It does depend on the kid, not the parent. I got spanked. My parents found that putting me in time outs did not really affect me. My brother? Being put in time out was like the end of the world to him and was extremely effective.
[QUOTE=YogaBare;1091620]Sadly, that is some parent's goal.[/QUOTE]
in which case there is some mental issue with the parent, it's not the goal of sanity
[QUOTE=bloodorchid;1091623]in which case there is some mental issue with the parent, it's not the goal of sanity[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone will contest that!
[QUOTE=Louisa655;1091607]and there is no reason -- EVER -- to strike a child, a spouse, a friend, an interviewee or any other human being. [/QUOTE]
So if you are being attacked or raped what would you do? Try asking them to stop harming you and see how well that works. You might be able to run away but sometimes that's not an option. This generally would not apply to children but there are very good reasons to strike some human beings.