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[QUOTE=Him;1092984]Is it learned from the parents though?
I have a friend with a ±1 year brother. Same parents, raised in the same house, etc.. My friend is one of the nicest and most conscientious people you could meet. His brother is an asshole of the "deliberately run down small animals with his car" variety. Even if you assume the difference is entirely learned vs. some neurological defect, how did the brothers learn such different lessons while basically sharing one childhood?
I've known enough really cool people with "we don't talk about him/her" sibs/kids to think that parents really don't control much about how their kids turn out. Some take credit, some get blamed, but none really control.[/QUOTE]My girlfriend comes from a family like this. She is the scapegoat for everything and the "bad" one, her sister is the golden child who can do no wrong. Even though they're about equally good and successful people.
The asshole brother was probably the scapegoat, and over time, fell into the role. It's similar to how in high school there were "good" and "bad" kids, but it was mostly a mythology reinforced by the teachers' favoritism. Parents may claim they don't have favorites, but in some families it's clear that's a lie.
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[b][u]Down with authority[/b][/u](this statement goes for abusive parents too, I think JoanieL makes a good point)
They're protecting us from all these dangerous criminals(prisons are overcrowded with those serving sentences for minor offenses, wasting tax payer dollars) but, who, protects us from them? These people are basically given free reign to use lethal force, and they're protected by the media lies, and their own inside corruption.
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Pigs and criminals are two sides of the same coin; both tend to come from abusive backgrounds and are now continuing the cycle. At least criminals know better than to pretend to be heroes, though.
But this is exactly why I don't care to play nice with people who advocate hitting kids. These parents are responsible for raising the next generation of muggers, rapists, murderers, cops, and soldiers. They're the reason I have to be paranoid about walking anywhere after dark.
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What I've learned from this entire thread
-Some people that do not believe in hitting, also believe that there is nothing that you can do to change a child's behavior and that some kids are just assholes
-Some people that do not believe in hitting, believe that all ass-hole-ness is learned and that you must carefully control every aspect of your child's life to ensure that they are not harmed and do not become assholes
-Some people believe in hitting as a way to control and train them not to be assholes
-Some people believe that in hitting them, they are assured to become assholes
Most of all, I've learned that this entire cluster has been caused by one woman who came to a HEALTH AND FITNESS forum for PARENTING ADVICE.
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[quote]I'm not saying cops never do the wrong thing... but hundreds of people of all colors are arrested every single day without incident. They are not beaten. They are simply arrested for violating existing laws... like hitting other people. And they are not hit by the cops in return. [/quote]
not the point at all- lets say that all of the police everywhere are polite nanny trained jedi knights with no violent impulses...
still, no one ever asked me to agree to a law. No one said, "Yo Perfidy- you down with this? You consent?" Men just show up intent on caging me, or making me work for nothing (pay fines) because I violated their idea of good behavior.
So how is calling the cops acceptable and non-violent, but smacking a kid that is attacking another kid an act of violence?
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[QUOTE=Him;1092984]Is it learned from the parents though?
I have a friend with a ±1 year brother. Same parents, raised in the same house, etc.. My friend is one of the nicest and most conscientious people you could meet. His brother is an asshole of the "deliberately run down small animals with his car" variety. Even if you assume the difference is entirely learned vs. some neurological defect, how did the brothers learn such different lessons while basically sharing one childhood?
I've known enough really cool people with "we don't talk about him/her" sibs/kids to think that parents really don't control much about how their kids turn out. Some take credit, some get blamed, but none really control.[/QUOTE]
I think we are talking differences here... small children vs. children past the age of puberty in young adulthood.
In small children that bratty/spoiled "asshole" behavior is learned from parental inconsistency and reinforcement of negative behaviors. That has been proven over and over again.
This is what I was referring to.
A young child since the topic was spanking.
Because once you get into those older children... really?
Once you get to puberty and into young adulthood things get more complicated re development.
The outside world and peer groups play a much larger role in character development at this point and can have a huge impact during the survey period. As can perceived traumas... that are specific to the individuals temperament such as fighting in the home between parents (for instance one child my internalize the fighting while the other may not, and indeed may not see the parental fighting as an issue that affected them at all). During all of this of course the foundational character that was developed during early childhood is important, if the child feels like there are strong bonds this is better, and perceived fear or distrust creates more instability where family is concerned.
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[QUOTE=Derpamix;1092993][b][u]Down with authority[/b][/u](this statement goes for abusive parents too, I think JoanieL makes a good point)
They're protecting us from all these dangerous criminals(prisons are overcrowded with those serving sentences for minor offenses, wasting tax payer dollars) but, who, protects us from them? These people are basically given free reign to use lethal force, and they're protected by the media lies, and their own inside corruption.[/QUOTE]
Are you a 99er?
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[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy
that is ignorant really to say that every cruel asshole kid just has failed parents. Some people are just born to be cruel assholes.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Chaohinon;1092933]The only time this holds up is if a kid is born with a major chemical imbalance, like bipolar disorder. In which case hitting them is even more retarded than if they were normal.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Chaohinon, but I believe you are wrong. Yeah there are kids born to mothers who were on drugs which now affect the kids' behavior. But the reality is, while environment plays a roll a good portion of personality is inherited
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/02/science/major-personality-study-finds-that-traits-are-mostly-inherited.html]MAJOR PERSONALITY STUDY FINDS THAT TRAITS ARE MOSTLY INHERITED - NYTimes.com[/url]
[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scientists-link-defective-gene-to-aggression-inherited-disorder-could-explain-behaviour-1493946.html]Scientists link defective gene to aggression: Inherited disorder could explain behaviour - UK - News - The Independent[/url]
[url=http://www.livestrong.com/article/116006-causes-sociopath/]What Are The Causes Of A Sociopath? | LIVESTRONG.COM[/url]
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[QUOTE=PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess;1092997]What I've learned from this entire thread
-Some people that do not believe in hitting, also believe that there is nothing that you can do to change a child's behavior and that some kids are just assholes
-Some people that do not believe in hitting, believe that all ass-hole-ness is learned and that you must carefully control every aspect of your child's life to ensure that they are not harmed and do not become assholes
-Some people believe in hitting as a way to control and train them not to be assholes
-Some people believe that in hitting them, they are assured to become assholes
Most of all, I've learned that this entire cluster has been caused by one woman who came to a HEALTH AND FITNESS forum for PARENTING ADVICE.[/QUOTE]
ive learned so many new things about myself as a person from this thread
im weak
dumb
violent
a monster
should be sterilized
anything else? Have i missed anything?
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So here's a trend in all of these pages....
People who identify themselves with arguments that are against political coercion (ie, who do not accept that the police have a right to harm them anymore than anyone else does) seem to be generally pro-striking kids and from an environment where that was normal and not abusive,
while people who identify themselves as in favor of using political violence to solve problems generally believe it to be monstrous and violent to hit their own children.
Very curious.
I wonder if the latter group is so against hitting their children because of the very fear/reward dynamic they wish to avoid. As in, the biggest baddest rapiest dick of them all (the State) warns them that hitting their kids is wrong, so they believe it.
