[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073363]If anything, humanity's impact on the planet is a sign of our lack of intelligence. IMO Animals possess something humans too often lack: a sense of what really matters in life.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the last point.
Regarding intelligence, it does not mean we lack it if we don't use it properly, or for material gains and the exploitation of others. I think your ideology is perfectly valid, and I respect it a lot, but I also believe that for optimal health, meat is central to our diet, and we have evolved to eat it. This is just the way it is, and most meat eaters keep it to themselves, don't judge others etc. Unfortunately for the vegan and vegetarian communities, there is a very vocal, angry, hating section, that will not let others live their lives without vilification. It needs to be a two way street, if we worked together on the 'real food' issue, we could save millions of lives, and make the lives of those that were taken much happier along the line.
[QUOTE=Gorbag;1073364]As a pure vegan you are directly and indirectly responsible for the loss of more life, both from the plant and animal kingdom, than any pure carnivorous on this planet, just saying…[/QUOTE]
I mean, if you want to look at it that way, we can quibble over whether showering is immoral because it kills bacteria... I think a lot of the diseases that plague mankind may be the result of our mistreatment of animals, or our willingness to allow others to mistreat them if it means we get to eat bacon.
Nowhere did I say I'm perfect. Just that my instincts have led me away from eating the way I was eating. I guarantee you there are people who read this forum who eat things like "organic" yogurt and factory-farmed meat on a daily basis. Maybe my post will make them think twice. If it does, I feel it was worth it.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073366]I will reiterate that it is [B]unnecessary[/B] death I seek to avoid. The lion has to kill the zebra. I'm not convinced that modern, sedentary man needs much in the way of nourishment, given that the ticket to food these days isn't chasing wild game but (for the more fortunate among us) extended sitting and computer usage.[/QUOTE]
Actually the more fortunate among us don't have to sit in front of a computer, have a physically demanding career, and have the skills to hunt, trap, catch and grow our own food.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073366]I will reiterate that it is [B]unnecessary[/B] death I seek to avoid.[/quote]
No, you seek to avoid ACKNOWLEDGING said death.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073366]The lion has to kill the zebra. I'm not convinced that modern, sedentary man needs much in the way of nourishment, given that the ticket to food these days isn't chasing wild game but (for the more fortunate among us) extended sitting and computer usage.[/QUOTE]
So quit the death-inducing veganism and become a breatharian. I'm joining those that are "out"
[QUOTE=itchy166;1073376]Actually the more fortunate among us don't have to sit in front of a computer, have a physically demanding career, and have the skills to hunt, trap, catch and grow our own food.[/QUOTE]
*shrug* I had a more physically demanding job before this one. I prefer the computer.
A few days ago I realized I had been basically vegan for the last few months. It started with cutting out dairy for health reasons. It's been summer the last few months in Australia and the thought of cooking and eating meat and eggs in hot or humid weather makes me ill. I also have always disliked seafood. So yeah, I kind of realized no dairy + no meat, seafood or eggs = vegan. I actually feel better eating lighter foods and have had some benefits. If I feel like eating some meat and eggs when the cooler weather comes back around I will though.
Good luck though. I plant based diet can be extremely healthy. You're going to cop a lot of shit on here but if you're not comfortable with what you feel is unnessesary killing then I see no reason why you should continue doing so. I'm neither here nor there on the moral side of things, though I admit even the smaller grass-fed/organic/humane farms can still have some pretty dodgy killing techniques.
May I point out that I have been killing, gutting, and cooking wild fish and game since about the age of ten.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073375]Nowhere did I say I'm perfect. Just that my instincts have led me away from eating the way I was eating. I guarantee you there are people who read this forum who eat things [B]like "organic" yogurt [/B]and factory-farmed meat on a daily basis. Maybe my post will make them think twice. If it does, I feel it was worth it.[/QUOTE]
Organic yogurt? What's wrong with that? Oh wait, I suppose it may be because millions of innocent bacterias in the yougurt will be killed in the digestion process!
Hmm, seem to be a bit complicated to live on this planet without killing anything...
Hi 2nd Chance
Up until a few weeks ago I was a raw vegan for 6-8 years and prior to that a vegan for about 10, and a vegetarian for over 20 years.
Initially, in the first few years I felt great but as the years went by my health slowly declined until such a point that I was struggling to function. I tried doctors, homeopaths, nutritionist etc, you name it I tried it.
It wasn't until I found out via some in depth tests that I had numerous deficiencies such as B12, iron, Vit D, magnesium, etc that I had to face the fact that maybe my diet was the root cause. It was not something I wanted to admit and was adamant that I was going to continue with dietary choices. However what changed my mind was that I was suffering amongst many symptoms severe neurological pain, which I later found out was due to my exceptionally low B12 levels, and that if I didn't change that I may do permanent damage to my nervous system - the warning signs were all present.
I basically left it too long and now my digestion is dramatically impaired and doctors are unsure whether it is reversible.
I went into veganism because I listened to both my body and my heart but unfortunately over time I became so weak and now the road to recovery is a steep and challenging uphill climb.
I wish you well with your chosen path. You may well feel great now but I would advise you to heed any warning signs or symptoms your body gives you in the future. Don't ignore them if and when they arise. You only have one body in life......take good care of it.
To extend life is to take it away from something else. Everything that sustains you physically is life, you're eating cells and seeds of other beings. Why is it okay to eat kale and not a chicken? Kale is a living organism. Kale doesn't grow and multiply just so you can have a nutritious vegetable to eat. Kale doesn't want to be ripped out, chopped, and digested by a mammal. Is it because it doesn't (as far as we know) feel pain? Is it because we can't identify with kale? Is it because we don't resemble kale - it doesn't have eyes, or ears, or muscles? Why stop only at lifeforms that we can identify with? If you're against death of life for your sustenance, why not stop eating altogether and just wither away in peace?
Your existence is causing the death and suffering of other living organisms. It's not just food. Do you know how much pollution, death, and resource gathering the creation of the computer you're typing on has caused? Not only that, but consider that everything you use that is not made by you, has been made by other human beings which also consume other organisms for sustenance. It's a huge web of death that lets you stay alive and especially lets you enjoy modern life such as immediate and easy access to food.
Switching from eating animals to being a vegan for moral reasons is like being a serial killer who kills 20 people a year, to being a serial killer that kills 10 people a year. Heck, as some others have mentioned, maybe you kill even more during the harvesting of your food. In the end, you're a serial killer like the rest of us, and the only way to stop, is to cease to exist.