[QUOTE=heatseeker;1075766]Not narrow-minded in the slightest, this one. ;)[/QUOTE]
Funny thing- the Stoics were pretty much beaten out by the Christians. Their ideas about how to live well were very, very similar, but the philosophers couldn't offer the eternal grace at the end of it like the religion could.
[QUOTE=Stephanie;1075454]So now I don't respect animals? Because I said humans are superior to them?[/quote]
This was not my take on it. My take on your statement is that you denied the animal-nature of humans. We are animals, we are part of nature, as well as having big brains and technology that makes us highly successful creatures on this planet (that also creates a lot of destruction).
I don't eat animals because I am "superior" to them. I eat animals because, as an animal, my biology/body dictates that requirement -- just as a lion must eat and a cow must eat and every other kind of creature that is an animal must eat.
There's nothing wrong with needing to eat.
From there, as human beings -- our nature also to be thoughtful and develop technology etc -- we can decide how we want to procure our foods, and like you, I choose farmed animals who are treated in a way that we feel is most appropriate/healthy for them, for us, and the planet.
None of this is about 'superiority' over anything.
I wonder how many different species would feel they are superior to humans, if they could talk and communicate such a thought. Of course, cats already do.
I often don't understand the superiority complex humans have as higher functioning life forms. We have a religious doctrine that states we were created in God's image and given dominion over the Earth (though the proper translation is stewardship). This alone creates a separation from animals, and reading the first mentions that humans were indeed animals and the persecution that those intellectuals suffered, it's easy to see how these thoughts remain today.
Why claim we are not animals by pointing to behaviors that humans would exhibit were it not for our norms and standards of civilization? We fight and kill to protect territory, be that physical or ideological territory. We propogate our species. We suffer from the same needs to eat, sleep, and have sex. Anything other than that is just filler for the 70-90 years that we expect to be on this Earth.
Separate our thoughts of immortality and existence beyond this realm, we are very much animals. And even that may be in question because we lack proper communication to know whether other animals have any form of belief system.
LOL, the OP has not posted for ages, they are probably sitting back grinning about how we are all arguing with each other about this.
I don't really give a shit what the OP wants to do with her life - but I think a lot of "moral" vegans have low self esteem issues. They don't seem to care enough about themselves to "cover their bases" nutritionally. Even if you don't ever want to eat meat again, if you won't eat eggs (that are not fertilized, and can be bought from good farms with happy hens) or oysters, etc, because one is an animal product and the other one "may" be an animal (technically isn't) then you're just a fool that doesn't really care about nutrition at all.
I believe in the importance of meat in ones diet, but also believe you can be pretty well fed if you exclude all of it but include some eggs, some cheeses and/or full fat dairy, some shellfish, etc and take care not to eat junk. My gf's brother is basically going down this road, and that's all I told him.
I had a weird thought I feel like contributing to this thread. I actually like plants more than I like animals. Prettier, not so dangerous or annoying and all that. I eat plants though without feeling any moral dilemma. Weird, right?
[QUOTE=Leida;1075867]I had a weird thought I feel like contributing to this thread. I actually like plants more than I like animals. Prettier, not so dangerous or annoying and all that. I eat plants though without feeling any moral dilemma. Weird, right?[/QUOTE]
Plants can be good company. They just sit there quietly and soak up the sun, and they are pretty and often smell good. But, I need to have another heart like mine beating in the house, so I brought in some cats and gave them dominion over my home.
Good troll OP 8/10.
So if humans are superior to animals, are some humans superior to other humans? A "survival of the fittest" sort of thing? You all can afford to eat only high-quality animal products, but not everyone can. How does that make you feel? (an honest question meant to facilitate contemplation, not response, but go ahead call me overly moralistic and whatnot)
When I ate a lot of expensive, organic animal products, I felt like I should hang my head in shame when I left the house. It wasn't a good feeling, and it stemmed from an emotional place, not a physical one.
The whole point of primal living, to me, is adapting. It's not about trying to recreate Grok's life. It's about adapting to life in the modern world. I read a book called The Mood Cure with one chapter that asked, "Are you too sensitive to life's pain?" That question resonated with me. I wouldn't say I'm too sensitive to the world's pain, but I wouldn't be who I am if I wasn't really, really freakin' sensitive. I am a weak, modern human. I cry at sad movies (Grok would never!). I didn't like being in the world like, "oh, I know the secret to feeling good, but I won't tell you because everyone can't know about it or else the price of my precious bacon would skyrocket..."
The meat industry's footprint is everywhere. Your cow is grass-fed, but what about his mom? Your pig ate "organic" but did he ever get to move? Modern diseases are both fascinating and terrifying. I don't think anyone can claim to understand them. But the evidence of the dangers of too much protein is, IMO, more compelling than a bunch of people chanting "you need meat" as if they're reviving some indoctrination from elementary school.
I'm not convinced that I'll suffer as an herbivore--but I did note one commenter's observation that I seem to have obsessive tendencies. Right on the mark. But I've made a life out of chasing down the next great thing, and so far I've found some pretty nice things--sometimes not the thing I was chasing, but an accident I happened upon along the way. So yeah, it's not like I'm saying, "now that I've found one way of doing things, I'm closing my mind to any other ways"--but for now, this is a totally instinctual decision. At this moment I don't feel inclined to eat meat/eggs. Dairy has always been disgusting.
That's all I've got for now. Keep the good discussions going!
You should kill yourself just to be on the safe side.