[QUOTE=Happy Paleo Girl;1073256]I heard an interview with Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride in which she spoke about why people who go vegan initially feel great, and then eventually begin to experience failing health, and it made so much sense. Plant foods are cleansing. If you are struggling with illness and need to clean your body out, plant foods are great for that. So you start to feel better as your body is cleansing from illness. But she says that it's not something that you can sustain for long periods of diet and still experience good health.
Animal foods, on the other hand, are nourishing. Ideally you have a balance of nourishing and cleansing foods.
In any case, more power to you if you feel better being vegan. But if at some point if your health begins to deteriorate, you may want to consider adding in some nourishing foods again.[/QUOTE]
I would agree with this. I dont think an entirely vegan diet is completely sustainable long term without some form of animal, even used as a supplement. Even just a tsp of cod liver oil and some grassfed cheese would go a long way in a vegan diet.
2ndChance, what are you doing about B-12, retinol, k2 and Iron?
I just don't want to base my diet on words anymore. It used to be that I'd eat things I didn't want to eat because I read that I should eat them. But to me, it seems more natural to trust my heart than to craft my diet to fit guidelines I read about on the internet. It's been so long since I ate processed foods that I feel confident trusting my taste buds--sometimes they seem to say, for example, GIVE ME BANANA! but they don't speak in words. Chasing down what my taste buds want seems very Grok-ish to me. Planning my meals around a bunch of numbers and letters, not so much.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073217] The "modern world" is based on mass cruelty and suffering. Animals are regarded as lesser beings, their suffering as just "part of the food chain," a step in between alive and on our plates that we choose conveniently not to think about. I'm not saying I'll never eat an animal product again--perhaps if one day I'm living on the savannah and starving, I'll chase down a wild boar and nourish my tired muscles with its flesh.
Don't you forget that plants are living beings as well, that tries to protect themselves against herbivorous like you! Well, they may voluntarily let you eat their fruits though, to spread their semen…;)
The "modern world" is based on mass cruelty and suffering. Animals are regarded as lesser beings, their suffering as just "part of the food chain," a step in between alive and on our plates that we choose conveniently not to think about. I'm not saying I'll never eat an animal product again--perhaps if one day I'm living on the savannah and starving, I'll chase down a wild boar and nourish my tired muscles with its flesh.
[Quote=Lierre Keith]“What do plants eat? They eat dead animals; that’s the problem. For me that was a horrifying realization. You want to be an organic gardener, of course, so you keep reading ‘Feed the soil, feed the soil, feed the soil…’
All right. Well, what does the soil want to eat? Well, it wants manure, and it wants urine, and it wants blood meal and bone meal. And I…could not face that. I wanted my garden to be pure and death-free. It didn’t matter what I wanted: plants wanted those things; they needed those things to grow.” [/quote]
Enjoy your journey into self-delusion and poor health. We'll still be here when you're ready to be nourished again.
[quote]I heard an interview with Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride in which she spoke about why people who go vegan initially feel great, and then eventually begin to experience failing health[/quote]
Yup. I was a happy vegan for two years, until I was suddenly extremely sick.
It's not really worth arguing with the OP, because I remember the righteousness of youth and how awesome it felt to be absolutely sure I knew absolutely everything. The moral righteousness of veganism is pretty heady, too.
This quote tells me really everything I need to know about where he's at as far as life experience:
[quote]But to me, it seems more natural to trust my heart than to craft my diet to fit guidelines I read about on the internet.[/quote]
*shrug* Safe travels, guy.
@Rich: There's a difference between nutrients in soil being naturally replenished by animals who lived long and died naturally, and needlessly breeding and killing animals so you can eat your preferred dinner.
@Heatseeker: I'm a she. I don't think I know everything, but I think I have just as much right to share my thoughts on this forum as someone who eats meat. Perhaps in Grok's time I'd be a welcome member of your tribe since I wouldn't compete for the same foods as you. Who knows, really. The fact that you're tracking the way you look with pictures tells me where you're at in life, and I wish you the best just as you do for me.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073307]@Rich: There's a difference between nutrients in soil being naturally replenished by animals who lived long and died naturally, and needlessly breeding and killing animals so you can eat your preferred dinner.[/QUOTE]
All your food is grown in soil that's naturally replenished by animals who lived long and died naturally? I call shenanigans.
Your theory on phytates "cleansing" has no basis in science. Binding nutrients that you need is going to make your diet quite difficult.
I am curious if you have thought about how to survive without reliable dietary source of B-12. Non-animal sources tend not to work very well or have very much.
I do not share your sentiment for animals lives. I feel that it's perfectly moral to kill an animal for food and resources. Being primal is about being resourceful. To theorize with the figure of Grok, I believe he would have used as much of the animal as possible, so as not to be wasteful. That means eating any part that you can, using bones for tools & building, and saving the hide for clothing or structures. Without animals, Grok would not have survived. Sustainable farming in our modern world certainly needs some attention, work, and improvement. That's why I'll do my best to support local farms who have good farming practices, when I can.
[QUOTE=2ndChance;1073242]I think the thing I've learned most throughout this is not to trust anyone who stands to make a buck off me.[/QUOTE]
True to a point and how sad that is. I am motivated to help my customers make more money themselves. That way they keep coming back to me and I make more money at the same time. Symbiotic.
I have a fair few of my family who are vegan, but I think there are some things to consider.
In my opinion, the only way of eating that is not fraught with contradictions is that of the meat eater, and particularly the hunter who kills and eats his/her own food. If a life is sacred, whatever the size of the animal, those who subsist mainly on cereal crops are indirectly responsible for millions of deaths, of insects, or rodents via rodenticides and being chopped to bits during harvest, animals trapped in wire mesh surrounding fields etc etc.
In fact, I may eat the equivalent of 3 large animals per year, who knows, by eating no commodity crops at all, I am relatively free of guilt for the deaths of all those smaller animals.
I was listening to a podcast the other week, can't remember who, maybe Robb Wolf, but they recounted something which had a profound affect on me. They recalled a statement by some scientist or archeologist from a few years back who said....
[I]"Vegans (or vegetarians, can't recall), are the first group of people to deny man's place in nature"[/I]
I found it profound because we are part of nature, we have been for millions of years, and we are part of the food chain, at the top. That is nature, it is undeniable.
We do however, have the ability in the modern world to make choices about that. But denying yourself meat because you think that not eating it will make you free of responsibility for mass carnage in the animal world is denying the reality that millions of small animals, and larger ones too, as well as human beings on slave wages and poisoned by pesticides, die every year to produce wheat, soy beans, etc etc, at the hands of some of the biggest agri-business companies in the world.
I agree that the source of meat, and the life it has lived, should be considered, we should respect the lives that are lost for us to eat. I am on the verge of getting another air gun so I can hunt rabbit and pigeon. Find a local farm that will allow you to kill a few cockerels, or get into a share scheme with some locals for a beast or lamb etc.
Those are just a few random views that erupted as I typed.