[QUOTE=sakura_girl;1069655]So you're in a never-ending spiral of screwing over your metabolism by continuously eating less and less meat until your body begins cannibalizing its own protein mass?[/QUOTE]
If you have to go that far down to lose some weight then you probably have some serious issues that go far beyond your diet and might want to see a doctor about them...
See Paleobird for how to eat on the meat and fat end of the spectrum and enjoy life with smaller amounts of food. Tell me she looks like her metabolism is in a death spiral.
[QUOTE=sbhikes;1069705]See Paleobird for how to eat on the meat and fat end of the spectrum and enjoy life with smaller amounts of food. Tell me she looks like her metabolism is in a death spiral.[/QUOTE]
Guess who wrote this 2 years ago:
[QUOTE]OK, it’s time for me face reality. PB is a great, healthy WOE but it will not lead to weight/fat loss in my case unless I get down to some serious calorie restriction.
All this talk of, “Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are not.” “Throw away your scale”, etc. sounds soooooo nice but it just isn’t cutting it.
I’ve been around the boards here since last fall and I’ve observed some people for whom the PB works.
The Switchers: People like TawFunGuy and Dave Parsons who were seriously overweight and made the Big Change. They couldn’t help but lose weight from massively SAD diets to PB. I admire the heck out of those guys.
The Healers : People who are here for medical reasons such as celiac, PCOS, hypo thyroid, eating disorders,etc.. Weight stabilization is a pleasant side effect of the healing they find. More power to them.
The Uber Athletes : These are the healthy young studs/studettes who want a WOE to complement their tough workouts so that they can see every one of the six pac muscles clearly. This works for them. Cool.
Then there is me. None of the above. Just a lady coming up on 50 who would like to lose some weight. No major health problems and not a huge amount to lose, (30lbs) but no desire to revisit the uber athletic days of my youth. I have always been health conscious and physically fit. I don’t think that some brown rice and tofu did me any irreparable harm. Not optimal, I understand that now, but not really that awful. I never did eat junk or over eat sugar or carbs. I have never had an eating disorder, I don’t have cravings or binges. I am very compliant with PB eating rules. I sleep well, get plenty of all natural vitamin D and include lots of play in my life. I eat tons of veggies, no processed junk (I mean Zero) lots of PB approved proteins and fats. Dairy free, legume free, minimal nuts and berries. I am almost always good about following the PBF workout routine. And I IF for 24 hours about 3-4 times a week. I’m doing everything “right”, right?.
I have come to the conclusion that my body “likes” having an extra 30lbs of spare fat and is going to keep it around unless I do some serious caloric restriction.
About Batty’s thread which I so adore, Yes, body composition has shifted around allowing me into a smaller size jeans. But I am not buying the “muscle is more compact than fat so you should ditch your scale” argument. At the levels I’m working out, I am not packing on pounds of muscle. Batty is a different story. They don’t call her workout room “Batty’s Basement of Doom” for nothing. My PBF push ups, pull ups, planks, etc. are toning things up a bit so the size 10s fit and I’m loving that. But the reason I’m not seeing falling numbers on the scale is not because of muscle mass gain although it would be reassuring to believe that and keep eating my bacon.
Then there is the question of if I really need to lose 30 lbs or if some chart just says I do. I don’t care about charts. I know what I look like naked and it’s not what I want to see. Also, even though I am healthy now, I would like to prevent the health problems that can be a result of excess weight down the line. (Also I am not one of those size 2 people needing help getting to size 0. I am 5'10" and 180 but I would like to be 150)
I have read Taubes and understand that there are good calories and bad calories. But there are still calories and too many of them, even the “good” kind and weight loss is not going to happen. I realize that the “calories in-calories out” thermodynamic explanation for weight loss/gain is over simplified but still calories DO count. So I am going to count calories. They will all be PB approved high quality calories, but I will restrict the quantity and see how it goes.
I hate giving up the idea of never having to weigh or measure anything again (food or myself). That freedom is one of the most appealing things about PB. I think it does work as a maintenance mode once you are at optimal weight so I can look forward to coming back to it eventually.[/QUOTE]
see answer: [url]http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread24580.html[/url]
The author of that passage did not lose weight and begin to maintain effortlessly through sustained ketosis. It was years of trial and error, and eventual diagnosis of medical condition that led to a ketogenic diet.
I think her success story is a better summary. Plus it has pictures.
[url=http://www.marksdailyapple.com/from-cancer-back-to-health/]From Cancer Back to Health | Mark's Daily Apple[/url]
[QUOTE=sbhikes;1069902]I think her success story is a better summary. Plus it has pictures.
[url=http://www.marksdailyapple.com/from-cancer-back-to-health/]From Cancer Back to Health | Mark's Daily Apple[/url][/QUOTE]
Well, it would be interesing to see if anyone can argue with that.
[QUOTE]The people who say that you can just ďeat when you are hungry, stop when you are notĒ donít get what itís like to have a completely messed up metabolism. When you canít just ďlisten to your bodyĒ because itís telling you lies about how much to eat, you need to impose some control on the situation from the brain down.
Sounds like not-optimal health if you can't trust yourself to eat when hungry and stop when full.
Not that I am saying that it's entirely possible to obtain truly optimized, amazing health in our generation with mediocre genes. But just my opinion, and I am still in the depths of experimentation.
[QUOTE=Neckhammer;1069629]^Again, wasn't talking about your diet philosophy. Simply the claim that low carb burns lean mass more so than another diet of approximately the same calories. That was all we were discussing, not the primal diet or humanity at large.[/QUOTE]
But it does, because gluconeogenesis breaks down protein from the thymus gland and skeletal muscle to make glucose.
[QUOTE=otzi;1069720]Guess who wrote this 2 years ago:
see answer: [url]http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread24580.html[/url]
The author of that passage did not lose weight and begin to maintain effortlessly through sustained ketosis. It was years of trial and error, and eventual diagnosis of medical condition that led to a ketogenic diet.[/QUOTE]
First. She had the medical condition long before she began Primal and eating a ketogenic diet.
Second. She dis lose weight simply by going Primal, but at some point she plateaued... and realized that to continue losing weight people need to pay attention to calories to keep losing, not just eat willy nilly all they food they want.
Third. Yeah... calories matter. Duh. A person who needs to lose 100 lbs will likey lose weight more easily in the beginning than those last 10 lbs when they really need to watch what they eat. That is all over these boards every day... regardless if the diet for losing those pounds is HFLC or nasty potatoes (and understand that I say "nasty" 100% out of personal feeling, I just don't like them unless they are served with an equal amount of fat to erase their bland and slightly acrid taste... you are free to love them as much as you like).
[QUOTE=sakura_girl;1069974]Sounds like not-optimal health if you can't trust yourself to eat when hungry and stop when full.
Not that I am saying that it's entirely possible to obtain truly optimized, amazing health in our generation with mediocre genes. But just my opinion, and I am still in the depths of experimentation.[/QUOTE]
I think I get what you are trying to say, but also I don't ...
How many people who have been overweight for years of their life do you think can just suddenly, magically, overnight trust themselves to eat just enough when hungry and stop when full?
Especially in the process of trying to lose weight. In trying to retrain the body to accept being a new healthier size?
Part of the thing that HFLC does for people who use it is help them be satiated so that they can begin to trust their appetites again. It mentally frees them and let's them begin to examine the triggers for stress eating, binges, etc. It's a great tool to let them reset the way they think about food. That should be reason enough not to hassle them at every turn like some around here do.
Bit late to the party derp! Me and Choco were hashing out an isocaloric study he posted....I'm of the mind the researchers stating "no statistical difference..." and "There was no significant change in fat free mass for either diet." tend to speak loudly. Past few pages if you'd like to read. Talking about a singular metabolic process in a vacuum is quite different than what happens in an organism as a whole.
[QUOTE=Neckhammer;1070022]Bit late to the party derp! Me and Choco were hashing out an isocaloric study he posted....I'm of the mind the researchers stating "no statistical difference..." and "There was no significant change in fat free mass for either diet." tend to speak loudly. Past few pages if you'd like to read. Talking about a singular metabolic process in a vacuum is quite different than what happens in an organism as a whole.[/QUOTE]
And so... if it's just calories, and I'm one of those people who is of the opinion that there are NO magical weight loss properties to a ketogenic diet...
Then isn't the way the person who is on the diet FEELS of the most importance?
I mean... if some people feel better on more carbs and are more likely to stick to that then that is what is appropriate...
But the exact same diet for another person might have them constantly on edge, feeling like they are hungry, wanting to over eat, on the edge of a binge... and fail week after week at sticking to the higher carb diet goals. Or barely scrape by and feel frustrated all the time.
For them maybe a HFLC diet is better suited because they can get some relief from the satiety it offers and deal with their food issues.
And at the same time for a person who goes lower carb right off the bat, doesn't really have any food issues, and feels slugish, more carbs is likely what is needed.
It may also depend on their exercise regime and other factors.
Different people, different needs.
Is that SO hard to acknowledge?