[quote]Getting ripped is a function of diet more than yoga or weight training.[/quote]
I originally came to yoga to improve my mobility, and because my slight case of scoliosis was starting to affect my workouts. ~12 years later, and two years after I became a teacher, I continue to do yoga not so much because I love it (though I do obviously like it a lot), but because it makes me so much better at the other athletic endeavors I pursue. Yoga enables me to live the life I want to live. For me personally, yoga isn't adequate for optimal strength/fitness--I've always considered it supplemental to other athletics--but I can't see a time when I'll ever quit doing it, because it improves so many aspects of my life, like mobility, mental clarity, sleep, even breathing and walking. Yoga will always be there for me, whereas there will undoubtedly be times in my life when I can't work with a barbell (which will be sad because lifting is my one true love).
The Crossfit to which I belong has a high volume of active Games athletes among its coaching staff. They all do yoga. Strength without mobility is not really strength.
I love Baptiste yoga. I teach Moksha, which is similar in that it's a heated sequence and it originated from Bikram instructors going, "Wait a sec, there's a better way to do this."
I totally agree. Yoga is HARD. My workouts consists of Yoga, Pilates, and Barre. All three mainly use one's own body weight, which is very challenging.
i really enjoyed the couple of barre classes that i was able to get to before moving. I'd love to offer them at our plce, but no one here teaches them. I can find some ballet instructors to do some of it, but. . . it's not really the same. Cool stuff.
I think the moksha sequence. It's got a fair few differences from bikram -- as does barkan -- but is very similar. I like all of the different bikram spin-offs really.
Even though I no longer practice and/or teach in heat. :)
[QUOTE=paleo-bunny;1055683]It's the moment on any individual muscle that is a measure of how hard it is working - hence an advanced strength-building standing pose in yoga can easily place a bigger moment on each muscle in a relatively small group of muscles cf individual moments in each muscle in a whole-body weight-lifting exercise. It's simply a case of understanding biomechanics.[/QUOTE]
My argument was that the moment on an individual muscle is less relevant to actually getting strong than the CNS activity that results from a heavy, compound lift, like the low-bar back squat.
[quote=arthurb999]Getting ripped is a function of diet more than yoga or weight training[/quote]
The term "ripped" to me means more than just skinny. I read it to mean lean but with muscles. I agree that your body fat percentage is far more reliant on your diet than your exercise choices, but the underlying hypertrophy is best achieved by getting under the iron.
Also, I can't believe this thread is still alive.
[QUOTE=paleo-bunny;1055683] Animals that maintain amazing strength, agility and flexibility do not do so through lifting weights - they achieve that through movements using purely their own body weight. Yoga-like poses can be easily observed in cats and rabbits for example.[/QUOTE]
I never thought about this before. I'm starting to really appreciate body weight exercises a lot more than I used to.
I love Baptiste yoga. I teach Moksha, which is similar in that it's a heated sequence and it originated from Bikram instructors going, "Wait a sec, there's a better way to do this."[/QUOTE]
I tried a Bikram class and HATED it! I'm really glad that there were some off shoots. Do you know why they chose 105 degrees? It seemed too hot to do the type of sequences that I really like in power yoga (the studio I go to is heated to 90 degrees, which seems like such an improvment; hot enough to warm up the muscle, get some good sweat going, but not so hot that all the movements have to be slowed down.)
[QUOTE=RichMahogany;1054560]And with that, I'll take myself away.[/QUOTE]
Dude, you promised to go away. Can you seriously not find any other interesting threads?
And BTW, I don't think anyone ever implied that 'ripped' means 'skinny'. I think that arthurb's comment was probably highlighting that since 'being ripped' is being muscular AND lean, the lean part is controlled by diet. (At least, that's my interpretation).
[QUOTE=BestBetter;1056405][QUOTE=paleo-bunny;1055683]Animals that maintain amazing strength, agility and flexibility do not do so through lifting weights - they achieve that through movements using purely their own body weight. Yoga-like poses can be easily observed in cats and rabbits for example.[/QUOTE]I never thought about this before. I'm starting to really appreciate body weight exercises a lot more than I used to.[/QUOTE]
Worker ants spend their entire life lifting and pulling heavy stuff, and they're pretty much the masters of relative strength. Make of it what you will.
In before "allometry".
I think for upper body (arms/back/chest/shoulders), it is likely if you aren't very strong or a beginner, that you will see quicker muscle building in Yoga or body weight exercises than in weight lifting. I mean think about it, if you weigh 150lbs for instance, you are going to stress your arms more doing pushups than bicep curling 12lb dumbbells or benching even 100lbs, if you do the pushups right. That same goes for yoga as many poses do have pushup type movements associated with them.
Unfortunately I do not think this is the case for lower body strength. You are already putting body weight or higher stress on your legs in all the general activity you perform. In fact most people can handle 1.5-2x body weight on their legs with no strain. Certainly you will obtain muscle growth and burn calories, which will make you look better, but you aren't going to achieve much additional strength in your legs unless you lift heavy, barbell or whatever.
So to summarize the above points...I think Yoga CAN build muscle faster than barbell for upper body due to the increased weight leverage you put on your muscles, but once you get to a certain threshold...you will see much better/quicker and more efficient gains from additional weight. The same can't be said for your legs, you will see MUCH faster/efficient gains from weighted compounds like squats(FYI you do not have to put the weights on your back to do a squat, that is called back squats, there are also front squats and goblet squats, the latter of which I think is much better for a beginner, helps you keep your knees out so you don't tear up your joints, but limits the weights you can use...). On the other hand, you probably won't see any gain whatsoever from 70lb leg presses, unless you are weak sauce. Yoga uses some squat like movements that involve body weight which will show better development than a 70lb leg press.
I think you guys are being too hard on Rich, though perhaps he isn't expressing himself properly. In order to see gains that he is mentioning you have to do HEAVY COMPOUND exercises. Your routine must look something like this (Stronglifts 5x5 - 3 workouts a week alternating between A and B):
5x5 Back squats (or front/goblet squats if you have upper back issues)
5x5 Bench Press
5x5 Back Squats
5x5 Overhead Press (standing up)
The key is to progress consistently, that means every workout you add 5lbs to your squat/bench/rows/press and 10lbs to your dead lift. If you aren't adding weight like this, you aren't progressing and aren't getting stronger as efficiently as you could be. You can add a couple more exercises, but they aren't really neccessary, especially if you are already doing Yoga. You WILL overall progress more rapidly and be stronger with this workout above done properly than any Yoga routine....it just isn't debatable. Note emphases at speed of gains.
On the other hand if you are doing 12 isolation exercises with 15lb dumbbells and leg presses at half your body weight, you certainly aren't going to see better gains than Yoga alone, and if this is how you exercise at the gym, then you are better off with Yoga.
[QUOTE=BestBetter;1056405]Dude, you promised to go away. Can you seriously not find any other interesting threads?
And BTW, I don't think anyone ever implied that 'ripped' means 'skinny'. I think that arthurb's comment was probably highlighting that since 'being ripped' is being muscular AND lean, the lean part is controlled by diet. (At least, that's my interpretation).[/QUOTE]
A. My apologies. I missed where you were named the arbiter of which threads I should post in.
B. Why do you insist on agreeing with things I've said in a contradictory manner?
You don't need to have a lot of muscles to be "ripped", but you need a low persentage of bodyfat. The guy below does not have big muscles, but he is ripped though:
[QUOTE=BestBetter;1056405]I never thought about this before. I'm starting to really appreciate body weight exercises a lot more than I used to.[/quote]
My husband is as well. He's been doing body weight for two years now, and he's really impressed with the results. He's happy to be lifting heavy, but he's doing a progressive (daily) body weight program (plus mobililty work), and then weights 1x week. He's really loving this combination of techniques to reach his goals.
[quote]I tried a Bikram class and HATED it! I'm really glad that there were some off shoots. Do you know why they chose 105 degrees? It seemed too hot to do the type of sequences that I really like in power yoga (the studio I go to is heated to 90 degrees, which seems like such an improvment; hot enough to warm up the muscle, get some good sweat going, but not so hot that all the movements have to be slowed down.)[/quote]
The sequence is really solid, with or without heat. Technically -- no matter how much bikram claims to, he didn't create this sequence -- his teacher did. It's a pretty classical sequence, the first 26 postures in a grouping of 84 that you ultimately do in that lineage. Pretty cool. Tony Sanchez left bikram and now focuses on teaching all 84. He's really awesome. But the sequence is *great* -- seriously. :)
And, that's also why moksha works and barkan too -- they added a few things to the classical 26, but it's still great work. Very well balanced.
The sequence existed before the heat, though, historically speaking. And, I know that the common refrain is that it's "hot in india" -- but it's not that hot. LOL Well, not all the time and everywhere. Sometimes it is.
So, Bikram learns from his teacher in India, after being a competitive weight-training/body builder guy and injuring his knee. In India, you traditionally practice before sunrise and after sundown (or dawn/dusk) becuase it's cooler then. So, in summer in hot areas, it might be around 65-75 degrees F, and obviously cooler in winter (probably 55-65).
Bikram then moved to Japan to teach -- his teacher told him to. It was colder in Japan, and he would practice traditionally (morning/evening), and it was often colder, particularly in winter (you know, snow -- like northern india). He would use the sauna, and he discovered that practicing after being in the sauna was easier. Saunas are generally around 105, with the humidity that bikram uses as well.
Then, he started to practice *in* the sauna. And he noticed these "benefits" (most of which are overblown and it does create risks). From an oxygenation POV, though, the heat-humidity ratio is *absolutely important* as well as having good ventilation for air transfer. This prevents some of the risks of overheating while also making sure that everyone has enough oxygen in the room.
Most hot yoga studios have no actual knowledge of the science behind this. Bikram is clear in his book about it -- but there's no in there science (biblios) to back it up. If you look up information about the heat/humidity, it needs to be a specific ratio to actually work and not overheat someone and keep the right oxygen levels in the room.
Now, Baron -- when he left bikram -- opted to lower the temperature, and wasn't fussed about the humidity. Originally, the rooms were heated to 80-85 degrees, just slightly above room temperature. What often happens, though, is studios decide where they want to be, and as teachers/owners acclimate, the heat increases over time to 95-ish, without any concern about the humidity or air quality.
What I have found from many hot studios (around the world, no less) is that they are wholly unaware of the true risks of the heat as well as the true benefits and how to speak to those. They usually tout the wholly unscientific benefits -- such as detoxing -- and completely disregard any risks.
Likewise, they often do not regulate the heat to create a consistent experience. Class to class -- even of the same method at the same studio -- the temperature can vary from 80-100 degrees depending upon the teacher's "feel" for it. Then, throughout the class, the temperature can also vary wildly -- a class may start at 90 but by mid-class (in a full classroom -- lots of bodies) be up over 105, and hten finish cooled down around 95 again (after floor work).
Bikram is pretty careful with his temps comparatively (not necessarily other studios of his around the world, but at HQ and anywhere he works, he is apparently very meticulous about the heat). Typically, he starts class around 105, and then uses the humidity to keep the temperature consistently there, and the heat is regulated (automated) to make sure that it shuts off above a certain temp while adjusting for humidity at that temp, and then turns on again if it goes below a certain temperature.
Most people, btw, don't even *notice* this. It's just "it's hot!" or "it's not as hot as bikram, but all the benefits!" Again, with no understanding of the science behind it -- if any in choosing a number.
There's also the ventillation issue at a lot of studios. Most have poor ventilation to begin with (i feel like mine does; it's on a typical, office building AC system). I put filters in the vents (interesting process to find them!) to keep down particulate matter, virus, etc being transferred through the building. It's essentially HEPA filtration at the vents. I have thermometers at different points in the room to make sure that I'm maintaining the room between 65-75 degrees F. I don't moderate humidity -- it's humid here anyway. A full classroom might get up to 80, at which point I make sure the AC comes on to cool and take it back down to 75.
Sequencing is what I use to heat the body, this way we get the benefits of the internal heat, without the risks of external. And, the majority of my population doesn't want heat (will actively avoid it, and some medically avoid it), so it works out well. But, for me, this air quality issue is importnat, as is providing a consistent temperature for the practice for the students.
It was my experience at several hot yoga studios across the US, in Europe, and here in NZ that hot studios tend to be wholly unaware of these issues. There is a studio that I mentor here in NZ that is a hot studio, and together we created a plan to keep classes consistent. They offered three styles: barkan, baptiste, and yin. They dropped yin to 80 (class must be between 75-80 for the duration); they keep baptiste at 85-90; and they put barkan at 90-95. There were some teachers who would yin at 95, others at 70. Students were confused, preferring certain teachers because of the heat they prefrred, etc. It messed with client experience and therefore cash flow.
By creating a consistent heating practice for all teachers to follow (and it's recorded by the automated system, so he can check), he created a consistent client experience, which caused a massive growth to his business.
They have one primary competitor, and because of this consistency, they have managed to systematically out-strip them. They also expanded their market by providing non-heated classes as well as a unique form of yoga that brings in ideas from Qi Gong (Qi Yoga they call it. It's phenomenal.). The non-heated bikram class is particularly popular -- it's such a good sequence of postures.
I'll try to dig up some of the science for you that I have -- f you are interested.
I think a lot of people benefit from heat, but I have a problem with hotties talking about it as if it is THE thing that makes the yoga work. :)
[quote]Dude, you promised to go away. Can you seriously not find any other interesting threads? [/quote]
The thread is still alive because many of us like to talk about yoga. :) I love to talk about yoga. More yoga talk, please! LOL