Yeah, I really can't help you if you can't see why myself and the other responders here found your original post to be snotty BS. That's just going to be something you'll eventually figure out on your own.
As to your points about the actual Potato Thing (as I have taken to calling it, because calling it a "diet" is wrong, calling it a "fast" is wronger and calling it a "hack" sends concern-trolls into a tizzy), you keep talking about making it "sustainable". It's not meant to be sustainable. It's meant to be a quick and dirty way to either a) lose the dreaded Last Ten Pounds or b) bust through a stall/plateau. Nobody is making an entire lifestyle out of potato eating. It's 10-14 days. The end.
[quote]You are also conflating complete protein and adequate levels of protein.[/quote]
I am not. I never said anything like that. Nobody is arguing that 20-30g of protein a day is enough for long periods of time. This is A WEEK. Maybe two weeks, if you have really good self-control (I do not). Eating low protein for a week is not going to harm or even have any large detrimental effect on anyone's muscle mass, unless--and this is important--they already have a low BF% and therefore have nothing else to burn. This is only for people with extra fat to burn for fuel. For 10-14 days. The end.
[quote]And you've ascertained this by ... copious self-experimentation eating 10 lbs. of carrots a day? I didn't mention twinkies, by the way. I mentioned fibrous fruits and vegetables which would probably act very similarly to potatoes in the diet.[/quote]
Except that they would not make you feel full, and you would get hungry and sad, and quit. Potatoes make you feel full, allowing for sustained caloric restriction without the mental/physical agony of being hungry and sad. I can't understand why this isn't getting across.
[quote]Your thesis is that the potato is magic.[/quote]
The hell... I literally said the words "potatoes aren't magic". And you're snarking at other people about reading comprehension?
It should be mentioned that I have no idea what it is about potatoes that makes this work, and I don't claim to. Otzi presented some theories in his original thread. I would be all for somebody figuring out the Science behind why it works the way it does. I mean, it's obvious that it works by caloric restriction, but why do potatoes make you feel so full and satisfied when you're not actually getting adequate levels of fat and protein? What's happening to the metabolism that makes this work? Etc.
[quote]I am going to chronicle this on my own website where I can keep the insipid comments to a minimum, hopefully.
If that didn't make sense, I can probably make it simpler, but not by much.
Whatever your forte may be, reading comprehension is not it.[/quote]
Again... really, you REALLY don't know why we think your posts are snotty BS?
[QUOTE=sbhikes;987322]How can you prove it's hokum if you don't do it for real, insufficient protein and all?[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's hokum. I'm saying it has to do with appetite control : satiety. Potatoes literally fill you up, while other foods not so much. It is this "filling up" that leads you to eat less and lose weight. That's it. Fasting does the same thing, but doesn't monkey about with satiety. You simply accept that you will go hungry for a bit, and get on with it.
If it really is just about filling you up, then you can do that and still get enough protein and fats to do this indefinitely. Even by eating potatoes in the mix.
I think carbophobia is just as much hysteria as the great cholesterol freak we're coming out of. There is nothing inherently evil about a potato, nor is there anything magical, as far as my understanding of metabolism goes.k
Don't you find it interesting how people have latched on to potatoes as some sort of weight loss talisman? It's as if I am attacking their religion here, when all I said was I intended to find out whether there was anything to it.
[QUOTE=heatseeker;987337]Again... really, you REALLY don't know why we think your posts are snotty BS?[/QUOTE]
If you really want to discredit me and don't care how you go about it, there are better ways than just taking my replies out of context ... you could, for example, simply take individual words that I have written at some point and string them together to make them say whatever you wanted.
This was the context:
I can't believe you would write such a long, supposedly intellectual criticism of the all-potato diet simply because you refuse to admit that glucose, even in large quantities, is safe for human beings to eat.
What's wrong with you, exactly?[/quote]
Let's drill this again: I never said the hack / diet / religion /thingy doesn't work. I suspect it can work better if we understand how it works. Read what I said.
People are trashing you for your condescending and rude attitude, not because you're trying to delve deeper into the whole potato thing.
I'll just leave this here, it seems relevant.....
Also, if you search google images for the term "douche" it's just a bunch of pictures of guidos, which made me laugh.
[QUOTE=pklopp;987309]Because the potato diet / hack / whatever is not sustainable precisely because it is seriously deficient in protein and especially essential fatty acids. [/QUOTE]
PK, you are a fast master. I am curious, how do you see this any differently than fasting which also is deficient in protein? Neither is talking forever.
A wiseman I once read, had this to say and I will change one word to tator, so it is not an exact quote, but close. I feel this could preface the tator thread as well.
[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]First thing first, just to get it out of the way, [B]tator[/B] fasting is not a miracle cure for all that ails you. I think that there is a lot there to recommend it to people, I practice my version of it, and have been at it for coming on three years now, and I fully intend to keep doing it. I do recognize, however, that it cannot be all things to all people. If anyone tries to tell you that one size fits all, then you are dealing with a blatant charlatan and you ought to govern yourself accordingly.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[quote]I'm not saying it's hokum. I'm saying it has to do with appetite control : satiety. Potatoes literally fill you up, while other foods not so much. It is this "filling up" that leads you to eat less and lose weight. That's it.[/quote]
That is, indeed, exactly why it works. Everyone already knows this. What are you even arguing?
[quote]If it really is just about filling you up, then you can do that and still get enough protein and fats to do this indefinitely. Even by eating potatoes in the mix.[/quote]
Almost certainly. But very few people on this forum have had success with that (what I described earlier as "plain old calorie restriction"). For some reason, people are having success with just potatoes. Don't know why. They just are. Why piss on it?
[quote]Don't you find it interesting how people have latched on to potatoes as some sort of weight loss talisman? It's as if I am attacking their religion here, when all I said was I intended to find out whether there was anything to it.[/quote]
Whaaaa? Who here thinks potatoes are a weight-loss talisman, or anything akin to a religion? Are you just making things up now? Look, just because it conveniently fits into the narrative you've concocted in order to feel superior doesn't mean it's true.
[quote]If you really want to discredit me and don't care how you go about it, there are better ways than just taking my replies out of context[/quote]
Wild stab in the dark: You watch a lot of Fox News, don't you?
[QUOTE=heatseeker;987306]Right?! I watched that for like five minutes straight before I reblogged it.[/QUOTE]
Awwwwwesommme - totally made my day! Thank you :p
[QUOTE=pklopp;987340]If it really is just about filling you up, then you can do that and still get enough protein and fats to do this indefinitely. Even by eating potatoes in the mix.[/QUOTE]
This is what I have been doing on my off days. It works, I dont think quite as well as all tators, but still experimenting with that. But I have been trying to have some higher calorie days w/tators, and lower calorie days with all tators. I think when I was IF daily except to include some 48s weekly also, I was too full on fat and not getting enough calories. I still am not sure what I know about that, the whole starvation mode for too long an extended time and all, if that was more harm than good.
I just know that after months and months of low carb/high fat, and months and months of IFing, weight loss was crawling. And September of even higher fat, was actually a gain that only 48 hour fasting would take off. Fasting is okay, but sometimes I just want to eat. Some day I will worry about the housecleaning aspect but right now, I just want the weight off. And maybe also throw some real fasts in there now and then for housekeeping purposes. This helps me to feel like I am in charge, I can go w/o food, especially if I think all I can eat are tators when I might be sick of tators.
As far as using other foods, sure you could. But this is just so darn easy. I don't have to keep a gazillion different veggies in the frig and try to use them up before they go bad. I bought 50# of tators for $9 and they will keep for months in my safe room, just like we use to keep tators in our cellar when I was growing up.
Anyways... I am glad you are embracing the science of it.
[QUOTE=pklopp;987326]The principal reason that I want to ensure adequate protein intake is because insulin promotes protein synthesis ... which is a complete waste if there is no supplemental protein being ingested.
Looking forward to your experiment. As far as I can tell from searching the interwebs, no one has ever used potatoes as a weight loss tool. There are some studies and stories, but they always added fat or something else.
Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
d) As Matthew Berry would say, get off your high horse. Chill out. It's just a fun diet hack experiment. Nobody is killing themselves. You're certainly allowed to think it sounds stupid, and get all condescending and Poindextery about it. And then we as a collective are allowed to tell you you're acting like a douche.
I am NOT part of the collective of which you speak. pklopp is welcome and appreciated on my part.