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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;906273]You're also assuming that you need to have omega 3 and omega 6 to survive. They are called "essential fatty acids" because your body can't manufacture them on their own and they have to be ingested. I see little evidence that concludes we NEED them to survive, and if we do, there is no "minimum" established. All I've seen is that a lot of PUFA is terrible for your health. I've never seen anyone get sick from not enough PUFA. For all we know we'd do better with as little omega 3 as possible assuming omega 6 is next to nonexistent as well.[/QUOTE]
And you are assuming that we may not need them to survive. Thats a fairly large assumption IMO. Just look at the FA breakdown of animals. I haven't seen any evidence of a culture aimed to eliminate PUFA and am not aware of any science showing that it is necessary for good health.
I have seen many studies and epidemiological accounts of people who eat more fish having better health markers than those who do not.
There is absolutely an upper limit and there is concern about ratio, but to say they are completely unnecessary is a HUGE leap of logic.
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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;906187]We have survived as a species for countless millennia without fish oil. Please, explain to me why anyone would need to take such a new, unnecessary and potentially dangerous product. People should be focusing on how to lower intake of polyunsaturated fat, particularly omega 6 from plant-based sources. The n3:n6 ratio IMO is completely irrelevant and if your n6 is so incredibly high that taking fish oil makes you feel better, that is a telltale sign of a huge problem.
Prediction: it's only a matter of time until you see countless studies showing fish oil supplementation leads to prostate cancer. I have a personal belief and because of its high rancidity rate and the estrogenic effect of polyunsaturated fat in general, I have a hunch that you're going to see it implicated in prostate cancer diagnoses. It may take decades to realize the effects, but I genuinely fear the stuff. Hopefully my prediction is wrong.
Nuts aren't "bad" for you. Your calories are better spent eating meats, fruits and vegetables.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people get bored on or need more than meat, fish, fruits & veggies over time. I'm not saying they "need" nuts. But many/most people are not hardcore & eating some nuts & other not so great but ok foods in moderation, allows them to stick w/ this WOE, then that's a good thing imo. Imo, it's why Mark has expanded & relaxed some on what is/isn't primal: to reach out to & be adoptable & doable for a lot more of the population. One of his goals is to reach, if I recall it correctly, 10 million people to adopt primal living. It's better to eat some nuts, than get bored or burned out on a more narrow WOE for many people who aren't so creative or don't have access to wide varieties of veggies,fatty fish or may never eat offal.
Not daily, but when I want it, I take cod liver oil, fermented, which HAS BEEN CONSUMED for a long long time by Scandinavian peoples. No prostate cancer rates there out of normal expectations for western populations elsewhere not consuming this oil. If I ate more fatty fish & had a history of low PUFA in my diet I'd likely not supplement. But I don't eat as much fish & seafood as I'd like to, so I do....
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That sounds sensible. If eat nuts I eat too many and become to rely on expecting / looking forward to the snack, so now I have cut out all snacks. I am happy to have them in the odd salad or dish, or one day I want to get around to trying a. primal satay sauce, but for now, I can go without.
and Happy birthday Betorq :)
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PolyUnsaturated Fats Acids (PUFA) are bad only when they are damaged by heat. The corn oil in the store shelves are bad, because they have already been damaged by heat in the manufacturing processes. The heat oxidizes the oil and when consumed causes inflammation of the arteries.
The PUFA in raw nuts such as walnuts are okay since they are not processed. But best to keep walnuts in fridge to prevent their PUFA from oxidizing.
Fish oil tablets are omega-3 which are PUFA. They too can be damaged in production. But how much is debatable. If you do take omega-3 supplements, keep them in fridge. But best to get your omega-3 from fish.
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[url=http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/07/17/dangers-of-pufa-videos/]Dangers of PUFA Videos – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)[/url]
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[QUOTE=Betorq;906721]
Not daily, but when I want it, I take cod liver oil, fermented, which HAS BEEN CONSUMED for a long long time by Scandinavian peoples. No prostate cancer rates there out of normal expectations for western populations elsewhere not consuming this oil. If I ate more fatty fish & had a history of low PUFA in my diet I'd likely not supplement. But I don't eat as much fish & seafood as I'd like to, so I do....[/QUOTE]
This is what I do too. I try to eat fish three or four times a week, and take a fermented cod liver oil capsule some days. Seems to be a long history of people eating fermented fish in one way or another.
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[QUOTE=katemary;907100]...and Happy birthday Betorq :)[/QUOTE]
Gee thanks. In theory it's just another day, although...in fact, everyone has to do things my way & agree w/ me for the next 12 hrs or so, lol :p
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[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;906187]There is absolutely no reason to ever take fish oil. Ever. It's a processed food that has likely been rancid for weeks before you even bought it. It is the most easily oxidized oil you can buy and the most likely oil to cause free radical damage inside your body because of how prone to rancidity it is. We have survived as a species for countless millennia without fish oil. Please, explain to me why anyone would need to take such a new, unnecessary and potentially dangerous product.
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Where is your evidence for ANY of this? Please tell me where you are getting the idea that fish oil has "probably been rancid for weeks before you bought it." Don't you think companies selling the stuff as well as consumers would catch on to this? Wouldn't the studies on fish oil pills show health problems if this were true? You are really reaching with this "fish oil pills are rancid" theory.
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[QUOTE=jimhensen;906068]... And if nuts are bad for you PLEASE show me a study that supports this.[/QUOTE]
Ditto. I'm familiar with the theories as to why they should logically be bad for you. But I've never seen a study that backed that up with experience. Is there one?
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[QUOTE=Hilary;907517]Ditto. I'm familiar with the theories as to why they should logically be bad for you. But I've never seen a study that backed that up with experience. Is there one?[/QUOTE]
Seems like you are asking for a study that shows (proves?) that PUFA's oxidatively degrade and cause CHD/CVD. I don't think this study exists because I have been looking for it ever since I found this forum. Chris Masterjohn wrote an article that referenced a study which showed oxidized LDL was absorbed by macrophages which in turn formed foam cells whereas unoxidized LDL did not. This may be as close to what we are looking for as we are going to get.
