[QUOTE=fiercehunter;1201007]You need to be careful with polyunsaturated fats, both omega 3 & 6. EFAs have not been proven to be essential.[/QUOTE]
Dont know if you are directing this towards me... Thats exactly my point. If a fruitarian/vegan can get their "efas" from vegetables/fruit, that kind of proves how non essential they really are.
[QUOTE=jackaaron;1199361]Edit: I haven't answered one of your questions....
Absolutely not on reading Matt Stone, Ray Peat, or anyone that you've recommended thus far. Well, that's not true...I've read them, and I've stopped. Not because they go against my thinking, are you kidding me! I would LOVE to follow YOUR advice on your sugar journal, and a LOT of your other advice. I would literally love to. And, I say YOUR advice because you are OBVIOUSLY influenced by these people.
But, I can't follow your advice, nor theirs because they (and you) write based MORE SO on emotion and "I'm going to motivate you" and less on a Spock (from Star Trek) sense of just the facts. I see you throw in facts here and there, but it's mostly a "take my word for it" from you (and them). And, when it comes to changing your nutrition, I think you need logic, science, and facts so you can research them yourself, and come to your own conclusion.[/QUOTE]
I have never read one emotionally driven article written by Dr. Ray Peat PhD. His articles tend to be factual with scientific theory and interpretation made of decades of evidenced-based science. If anything his writing makes a textbook seem entertaining. His writing is so scientific that it's almost Snoozeville if you aren't receptive to the science, which is why there are Danny Roddys of the world to make it more colloquial. I think of Ray Peat as the Ben Stein of the biological writing world. He's not trying to get rich or push an agenda; he's someone who obviously believes in universally true science, not proving his own biases to be true. I think many Internet health gurus simply try to prove their niche or bias to be better and truer than the next guy's.
[QUOTE=eKatherine;1199705]But please, don't lie to me. I said ChocoTaco is an "outlier", yup. It is nothing but a lie to say that he advocates "some carbs". [B]He advocates a diet of essentially no fat and hundreds of grams of carbs.[/B] For everybody, regardless of how they respond. Absolutely everybody. [/QUOTE]
That is greatly exaggerated. Choco has never advocated a low to no fat diet; he advocates eating more nutrient-dense foods in favor of excessive fats. You are misrepresenting his advice. The only universal thing he suggests is to eat all real foods without micromanaging macros. If you naturally gravitate toward a higher fat diet with real foods, I believe Choco would think that's just fine for that individual. Deliberately avoiding certain foods and macros is unnatural for an otherwise healthy person.
[QUOTE=eKatherine;1199778]I would not have been saying this if he had not told me in all seriousness that all the fat a person (ie, me) needs can be gotten from green vegetables, and therefore that is how much fat I should eat.
I totally accept that there are people who do really well on mostly carbs for energy, as well as those who do well on mostly fat. There are also people who are able to effortlessly move from one to the other. while others can be stuck in the fat-burning or carb-burning mode.
What I hate is people who make up statistics to support their claims and then get huffy when you ask for a citation.[/QUOTE]
You are taking what he said out of context. The argument was about what is essential and what is not, and very little dietary fat is actually ESSENTIAL as the body will produce saturated fat from carbs and EFAs are as little as 1g per day, which you can probably easily extract from things like vegetables during digestion. He never said that you [B]SHOULD[/B] get all of your fat from green vegetables, he was saying, one COULD survive on next to no dietary fat, e.g., fruitarians. He never suggested that anyone get all of their fat from just green vegetables! That is completely wrong.
If I am wrong, please correct me with his direct post.
[QUOTE=PaleoLogicCheck;876516]The only way any of us are going to attain a better understanding of our health is by taking it all in. Mark and Matt both the speak the truth, and their messages are really a lot more complementary than they might appear at first glance.
Example: thanks to their 'opposing' viewpoints on carb consumption, I think I've really come to a better understanding about it - something that neither one of them 'gets' yet, but ironically something that they both have 'kind of/sort of' pointed out. And I, like them, self experiment with these priniciples. I'll know in a short time if my 'new and better understanding' about carb consumption actually holds water or not. But so far so good.[/QUOTE]
Such a good point. They do both speak the truth, and there is something going on that neither of them get. Or perhaps one or the other does, but building businesses around particular ideas creates an environment where it's hard to redact said ideas. Ya know.
I've seen both sides of it. I've done extremely well on a primal-ish protocol, validating Mark's arguments, and then run into some serious hormonal and hypoglycemic issues after VLC, and used Matt's advice (along with my own intuition) to fix my health.
[QUOTE=j3nn;1203291]That is greatly exaggerated. Choco has never advocated a low to no fat diet; he advocates eating more nutrient-dense foods in favor of excessive fats. You are misrepresenting his advice. The only universal thing he suggests is to eat all real foods without micromanaging macros. If you naturally gravitate toward a higher fat diet with real foods, I believe Choco would think that's just fine for that individual. Deliberately avoiding certain foods and macros is unnatural for an otherwise healthy person.[/QUOTE]
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but both you and Choco advocate fruit and tuber consumption in the place of excess fat? Say, potatoes with your steak instead of slathering butter on it?
Thank you for posting your symptoms, you just described what I have been going through since last winter. I had been very low carb, around 20g a day, for 2 1/2 years. Last winter my heart start racing, I went into panic attacks...I struggled with my weight...I was moody, depressed the whole nice yards. It took me until this month, October, to realize I have been too low carb for too long. I now strive between 50-100 g a day. Been doing this for almost 2 weeks now. thank you for sharing your symptoms, makes me think I am on the right path.
[QUOTE=shannon;876846]well at first (under 100g/carb) i felt wonderful. almost high and euphoric. nothing could touch me! then about a few mos. later my energy started to drag. should i lower my carbs? i mean lowering my carbs worked to begin with. why not? lowered 'em to about 50g and of course felt that awesome low carb love once again. didn't last long. same thing happened except this time my libido and mood were effected. shoot! how could it be??? lowered 'em even more to about 20g, atkins style. dry eyes, dry cough, new symptoms of allergies (never had), skin losing it's glow, pms back, and the worst...stomach issues returning. ugh! how could my gut be feeling bad?! i haven't eaten grains/sugar/legumes in SO long! i was developing food sensitivities to onion/garlic, egg, and fruit. never in my life have i been sensitive to these foods! i was avoiding them because i was trying to lower my carbs. i figured that the more you avoid a food that you're NOT sensitive to the weirder your body reacts when you do eat it. i was snapping at everyone about everything! talk about caveman attitude. if i had a club... ;)
one last symptom i'd like to mention-cardiac issues. they may have been related to thyroid/adrenal fatigue. not sure. scared the shiz outta me though. woke up one night w my heart beating out of my chest (panic attack style but worse) and i HAD to vomit. puked but my heart kept racing and i was heavily sweating. sat down at the computer trying to figure out what was going on (i suggest someone to go to the e.r.). i looked at the clock and it was around 3:30am. classic cortisol time. anyways, i started craving oj and bananas. yuck! i hate sugar!! i was going flippin' crazy. thank god my hubby still ate these foods. went in the fridge and downed a jug of oj and stuffed in a few bananas. slowly but surely i was able to go to bed. i was killing myself. no doubt. i had a few more puking episodes w a racing heart. read matt stone and bam! i knew my metabolism was getting funked up. mark sisson says staying in keto for too long WILL mess w the metabolism. i didn't listen because it felt so good. damn ketones! added some sweet taterz and fruit and now i'm good to go. please be safe. i do believe that lack of carbs is VERY stressful to our bodies (even if we CAN do it), especially to someone w weak adrenals/thyroid. btw, all those symptoms above have been reversed w the addition of paleo/primal carbs :)
one other symptom i forgot. gallbladder issues. it WASN'T the fat, i assure you!! apparently i was so very low on vit. c that i was starting to get scurvy symptoms. i'm not a pirate!! i was eating my bell peppers and veggies that had vit. c. eating fruit took away the spasms almost instantly. all i know is that i have been through the diet ringer and counting macronutrients does not work for this chick.[/QUOTE]
Have been hearing about this guy for a few years and I see he is now a sought after guest speaker on alternative health webinars, which just underscores the fact that people will listen to anybody, and that even people organizing these events have bought this guy's bu**sh*t.
Matt is a self-proclaimed "health researcher" which means he's read stuff online and drawn his own conclusions using his intelligence but no real educational background to truly understand what is a very complex issue. I remember this from the early days of his site where he described himself this way, but check out his site now - nowhere does he introduce newcomers to who he is, his background, etc.-- I find it interesting that he has removed this information.
He also doesn't cite references on most of his blog posts (compare that to here, where this is common practice), but instead uses his personality to attract people who are struggling.
I would categorize this guy right up there with the cable TV political pundits. They make a name for themselves by being controversial, inciting the public by creating enemies of those with contrary opinions, etc. People buy into it because they want answers.
A moderate, balanced voice I like is Chris Kresser. He actually treats people and is a licensed health professional. He is also humble enough to admit that of all the conditions he treats - and people see him for some very serious illnesses - obesity is the most difficult. Compare that to Matt Stone, who has no credentials yet comes across as arrogant and a know-it-all.
Coming in late to this thread but thought I'd share my .02 anyway, for what it's worth.
Matt Stone is a spammer. There is no denying that. He is making a lot of noise.
I wanted to get a ref to an article in one of his guest posts from his buddy Colpo. But in the mean time, his site had changed to some sucker's trap. I registered with a trash email address, just to access that ref, but could not find it anyway because he had removed his former blog ... but in the mean time, what an amount of spams I got at this email address! This guy is a business model (which I can't recommend though).
alright. I was wrong. Matt Stone sux. back to paleo and feeling much better. I would just like to forget the last year or so. I can't look at another milkshake or pizza. he's kinda crazy.