You need a better therapist. Sorry to be so harsh but the way you fill up the message boards with such achy posts about your horrible slathered-in-fat body and your character flaws causing you to eat fruit (the horrors), well, it makes MDA forums kind of a sucky place to be. I start to feel bad about my own body, worse than I would make myself feel if I kept to myself. You are older than me, you lift way more than me, you're way thinner than me, you have children and a nice husband. I'm younger, I struggle to barely lift anything and I'm left feeling like death warmed over for the effort, I never had children, I've always been fat with no neck and still am, I have a mean boyfriend that I am only a thin shred of something away from hating. That you can be so miserable and I can feel overall pretty darn happy and even excited about my life and success has to say something about your mental health (or maybe mine?)
No, you choose to think that I am miserable and that my posts are filled with ache. You dismiss anything to the contrary and keep hanging on the negative. I think you might want to put me on the ignore list or something, 'cause you are obviously upset and stuff.
No one asserted that you were mentally ill, either.
When I read your posts, I see a lot of suffering. I don't know if you *agonized* over finding two cactuses for your collection in the same way that you describe suffering in these posts: character flaws, how you are slathered in fat (and various other body-hate/shame phrases), and so on.
I'm apparently not the only one who sees this. So either ALL of us are "reading into" what you write, or you are not communicating clearly, or you are communicating clearly from your experience and this is your actual feelings and we are seeing what you are saying accurately and asserting that it's . . . not normal (which is different than mentally ill).
There is a big difference between "interest in this" and "the *i hate my body* tone of your posts." And then followed with the assertion that these various inabilities are character flaws (or that we think it is, or that I'm somehow saying I'm 'better' than you because of what I'm doing, etc).
I mean, I obviously have an interest in a lot of these various topics -- since I've been around for a while -- and yet I do not communicate any notion that I hate my body, or that I'm suffering such that people would say "wow, zoebird, that's not normal thinking."
You can take or leave this, but it's going to keep coming up until you either A. communicate differently/more clearly (ie, if 'we' are reading into things, then perhaps how you are writing things is not accurate) or B. figure it out for yourself such that you are feeling and thereby communicating differently.
When I swim, I prefer to swim in sprints, rather than straight laps in 30 minutes.
I will do swim sprints as well, maybe once a week. I like doing it in fins, that's a logistic problem since I get to lag the fins around, or they freeze in the winter in the track.
What I am interested in with the swim is replicating the thermic impact of swimming coupled with the steady resistance of water. That to me implies a steady state swim for a 30-40 min on average. When I trained as a kid, we swam 60 to 90 min 6 days a week, and I am reading that adult athletes swim 2 hours a day. Now, that's the swim as the main focus. As a support, I am figuring to try 30-40 min, 4-5x a week & see if there is an impact.
When I was a kid, we did stroke training in sprints for about 45-60 minutes. And, as an adult, I just mirrored that training when I did the triathlon training.
Our common training in high school swim team was:
200 warm up any style slow pace
2 x 100 free
2 x 100 breast
2 x 100 butterfly
2 x 100 back
Then we'd do a series of 100s of just kicks/just arms often with drags (little foam things that you hold between your ankles). So, it would be those 4 strokes, 100 each arm then 100 each legs -- equalling another 200.
Then we would do a 500 as fast as possible in freestyle
then start the cool down which was a slow 200 any style
then we would have a finish of a slow 100 any style.
I did this for several years after -- picking up the speed and slowing down the rest time in between sprints such that the whole workout would be about 40 minutes, and then i started adding more distance. Right now, I don't have pool access, so i don't do the laps, but probably will in years to come. :)
I never swim with fins. The bother me. But, to increase drag, I would swim in hosiery or a t-shirt (that seriously increases drag).
The other thing to think about, though, is that swimming can prevent the "lean look" in general because the cold temps tend to have the body keep on a little extra fat. It's just one of those things. It sort of works different than thermogenesis as far as I can tell.
[QUOTE=Leida;1039046]No, you choose to think that I am miserable and that my posts are filled with ache. You dismiss anything to the contrary and keep hanging on the negative. I think you might want to put me on the ignore list or something, 'cause you are obviously upset and stuff.[/QUOTE]
+1. You have always come across to me as being a very positive person, Leida. I hope you stay that way.
I think you come off both positively and negatively, like any normal person, Leida. I appreciate your openmindedness for trying different things. I just wish you gave chocotaco's suggestion of taking a year off "dieting" in general to heart :)
I think some of the disconnect is that you use a really "female" way to relate about your diet. I have a very lean male friend who experiments and has talks about diet, but he'd never call it a flaw or envy someone over a food based issue. He is very clinical. He is obssessive and has the body to show for it, but he is never going to express any level of self hate over failure.
I think online, we tend to be either more arrogant or self depracating than in real life. There are days I get annoyed at myself for food decisions and days I'm glad I ate the salted caramel... I hope that in real life, everyone has the capacity to enjoy food and eat in a relaxed manner that enjoys the food and nourishes the body.
[QUOTE=Leida;1038027]A few points:
-if you weigh more, but have the same BF% as someone who weigh less, you are ahead in the game, because that means you carry less fat. Where looks are concerned it's BF% that counts, not sheer mass.
Not sure if this is what you meant to say but it doesn't make sense to me.
if you weigh 100 lbs and have 12% bodyfat you have 12 lbs of fat.
if you weigh 200 lbs and have 12% bodyfat you have 24 lbs of fat
Either of these people may or may not look better than the other person depending on their height, muscle and fat distribution. Even two people with the same % bodyfat can look extremely different. I am tall and slim - I have a friend who is quite short but muscular. We have the same % body fat. Some women carry their bodyfat on their hips, some on their tummy and some all over.
Also your body shape and look can change without your bodyfat % changing much if at all - this often happens as people age and hormone levels change.
You are what you are - do what you can to improve yourself then accept yourself.
I'm sorry I'm a few days late on the psychoanalysis party, but I think I might have some interesting light to shed ... or not.[QUOTE=Leida;1038027]I do believe that macros impact hunger and craving a huge deal, but there are some ingrained psychological dependencies that cannot be overcome by the best nutrition. I have tried every ration and approach under the sun, from <25 g carb a day to 70-80% carb and basically no fat. Everything in between, save for vegan versions.
And yet, I have never in my life, for a single day or hour in a day stopped craving fruit. Everything else I dropped and stayed away from for months and even years with no consequences: coffee, pastries, bread, grains, legumes, dairy, nuts & nut butters... you name it, I lived without it. I do experience a fleeting desire to get a candies or a cookies if they are in the house, but it is fleeting and easy to shrug away on most occasions. I can make them, serve and stash without problems. I have over-ate before of the normal domino foods: cheese and nuts, and in my pre-whole foods, post-pregnancy life I normally had a small bag of cherry twizzers every afternoon and a pastry or two with supper. Having dessert after supper was a norm through my entire life, normally tea with my grandma's jam. I don't overeat any of it now, and rarely make jam. When I have jam, I do want jam & will likely overeat it once I dig into the jar. Fruit is different. I have a gut-wrenching feeling every night I cut the fruit plate and cannot eat fruit, and when I eat fruit, the serving size of ~ 1 cup which is recommended doze a day is interpreted by my desire-stimulated brain as far too small. I am drawn to it, even if I hide it in the pantry. And, again, desire keeps telling me 'not enough, too small', I would eat about 3 to 4 cups of fruit (2 to 3 fruit the size of a medium apple). Save for jam, there is no other food that impacts me that way. It is a problem of desire compounded with emotional response (vacations/summer association), conditioning throughout childhood (shortage and no variety of fruit then abundance in season), ingrained, deep-seated belief that fruit is not a bad food (there is always this doubt that maybe there is benefit to eating fruit save for pleasure), and sugar/serotonin pleasure centers stimulation response.
The longest I went without fruit was 40 days. And I did not stop wanting it. Not really. I eventually got deeply depressed and dove into the fruit bowl.[/QUOTE]
Every word of this is true for me. When I increase morning protein enough, all cravings have disappeared, except for tart fruits. And if I have a little, I must have a LOT. Fruit in moderation causes a severe problem for me (and the fruit bingeing that occurs leads to other cravings coming back). I also don't think it's wise (especially for me) to eat fruit year-round in this latitude, and, like Leida, fruit also causes me physical problems. I get dizzy and headache-y in a strange way, but when I test my blood sugar, it's not that bad. I can binge on candy and not get the same kind of dizziness that *feels* like it should be high b.s., but isn't.
[QUOTE=Leida;1038125]I am thinking it is some sort of a fructose problem, because it looks like the problems are triggered by fruits and vegetables containing over 5 g of fructose (I was watching it when I was eliminating sugar on Whole 30) & I had shakes reaction 2 or 3 times after consistently eating sugars and fruit - the shakes were caused by higher consumption of sugar (say fruit every day and some chocolates/icing this weekend when decorating gingerbread houses, or after eating gelato in September after having a fruit for breakfast). But the trouble is it makes me feel unwell, but I can't stop at one cup. I think a healthy person should be able to, no? Just have half an apple, sigh contentedly and not feel like the world is an unfair and dark place 'cause I can't have two more?
I eat for the most part organic fruit (apples) or fruit that needs peeling (grapefruits and such). Since I get the same reaction from sweet potatoes that generally are not a 'dirty crop', I think it is fructose. I also break out after consuming like 2 tbsp of honey.
See above for my similar experiences.
[QUOTE=Leida;1038138]Oh, I agree with you, but so far I just got high sugar reading once, and they did a fasting test after that, and it came negative. So that was the end of it as far as the traditional medicine is concerned. That is actually the main reason I want to speak to a holistic practitioner/acupuncturist. I doubt I have anything life-threatening or serious, but if there is some imbalance, I think it might be helpful. (Shrug) for now I am trying to stick to minimizing sweets consumption the best I can without going bananas (pardon the pun!)[/QUOTE]
It sounds like we have similar things going on in this arena. The only difference is that I know without a doubt that my issues have nothing to do with self-discipline or character flaws because I have seen the unmistakable switching off of the cravings when things are physiologically balanced.
Right now, I"m experiencing cravings again, despite my breakfast still being protein & fat heavy (I'm talking around a pound of fish & meat every morning), after nearly a year of none at all. I'm trying to figure out the cause, but the difference between now and before is that I know there is a physical cause, and I have no part in the self-blame game like I used to.
When you've lived with a rational mind and an irrational craving for as long as I have - that is, the knowledge of what makes you feel good and the complete inability to act accordingly - you can understand how it gets to the point of believing you're just a person with a deep character flaw. But now I know better.
For me, I've never had body image disorders, never had any sort of mental illness or anything related. I feel no need whatsoever for a psychologist because this isn't about behavior nearly so much as biochemistry. I'll keep listening to the Krazy neurosurgeon & Mark & anyone else who is actually talking about the nutrition-physical connections and making sense, and one day, God willing, I'll see the end of these bizarre, irrational, self-destructive cravings.
Let's keep talking about it.
I do appreciate where you are coming from. I suspect that you might be better off following a CW-style female body-building regimen eating little and often and treating your body to a lot more homeostasis.[/QUOTE]
For whatever it's worth, eating little and often feeds my self-destructive irrational binge eating behavior. My best success comes when I focus hard on fueling myself with a massive breakfast and a nominal dinner. As I mentioned, I'm struggling again, even with this, but if I drop this for even one day, it's DISASTER. This is now a non-negotiable for me.