[QUOTE=samjohn;280138]For a long time Australopithecus was thought to be frugivorous but I think some new methods have shown they ate at least some meat.
That is going pretty far back though.[/QUOTE]
Australopithecus garhi ate meat and they lived 2.5 million years ago: [url]http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/australopithecus-garhi[/url]
Australopithecus Africanus and Australopithecus afarensis lived further back (2.1 to 3.3 and 2.95 to 3.85 million years respectively) and ate a diet that included insects and eggs: [url]http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/australopithecus-africanus[/url] & [url]http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/australopithecus-afarensis[/url]
Australopithecus anamensis lived 3.9 million years ago and were thought to be vegetarian: [url]http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/australopithecus-anamensis[/url]
Humans have been using tools to eat meat for more than 2.6 million years: [url]http://humanorigins.si.edu/human-characteristics/tools-food[/url]
How did pre-agricultural man eat?
Firstly, mankind was more or less forced into agriculture as the entire world became full of hunter gatherers. With increased competition for wild tubers and game, the tribes who took care of the tubers by replanting them and/or weeding them survived better...
From a food energy perspective, our crafty and often desparate ancestors would have done well to hunt or gather only the most energy dense foods, weighed against the resource costs of hunting or gathering them (and digesting them..). Large herbivorous herd animals, such as a buffalo or deer, could provide enough food for a family for weeks, with the well timed throw of an atlatl. How many grass seeds would one have to gather, carry, and grind with rudimentary tools to provide the same calories?
Grass seeds are only available seasonally, if at all...animal meat is a year round resource!
If humans were "evolved" to eat grains, we would have five fermenting stomachs like a cow.
While we can never know exactly what ancient people ate, deductive reasoning surely points out what a healthy, enduring tribe would have focused their food-procuring efforts towards. Certainly early man ate whatever he could get his hands on, and undoubtably this would include all sorts of herbs, fruits, and vegetables, depending on the season, climate, location, and foraging competition from other animals.
What is [I]optimal[/I] for us, doesn't depend as much on what Grok ate; as it depends on results, both individual and scientific. It seems that medical and nutritional science is too biased to give the Paleo principles a fair chance at proving their results.
How much anecdotal evidence is required to prove a theory true?
[QUOTE=Adrianag;278942]actually it is not strictly anecdotal or scientific guesswork since there are modern day statistics of drastic changes in the health of " primitive populations" who suddenly adopted western diets...[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, would you mind posting some links? Again, I'm by no means calling it strictly anecdotal, or even anecdotal at all, I'm calling the scientific evidence incomplete and necessarily based on very limited information.
[QUOTE=Sam Cree;278104]My feeling is that paleo man may have eaten grains occasionally, but I seriously doubt it was a mainstay of his diet as it is of modern man's.[/QUOTE]
We know he didn't eat grains like we do, it's a simple fact of lack of agriculture and that most grains that we cultivate simply didn't exist back then.
We don't know what our ancestors did eat but we know for 100000% certainty the things he didn't eat. ;)
[QUOTE]Our current level of grain production is unsustainable, it is degrading the top soil and it requires petroleum based fertilisers. Pastured animals are a better option since they don't need synthetic fertilisers; their shit works as a fertiliser (the way nature intended).[/QUOTE]
I think you could make the argument that we are better adapted to small scale pastoralism than agriculture, if the debate gets that far.
Our food system now is based on what can be cheaply made, manufactured, packaged, shipped and sold, not on what is sustainable or sustaining. We are a minority, though, worldwide. Most humans get their protein from smaller animals, worldwide. We are talking about chickens, rabbits, goats, pigs. I would guess that that was true also for most of history before the ice ages. Where I'm trying to get with that is that we don't need to provide mega-fauna enough to feed everybody. The turn toward mega-fauna as a primary source of protein was a change forced by climate. It coincided with a big crash in the human population. One thing I read said that there may have been as few as 60,000 total individuals at the low point. So, I'm not sure there is any argument to be made for trying to feed everybody with beef cattle.
I am more for identifying a simple diet that is sustainable and supports health, then figuring out how to provide it equitably and (please god soon) moving on to other, higher order, problems, like space travel or global education, etc, etc.
I so totally agree with the poster who said incompetence is always a vastly more probably explanation for failure than malice, but the current system is founded more on greed than anything. Can you tell I'm a red or pinko here?
[QUOTE=joerandom28;284754]Out of curiosity, would you mind posting some links? Again, I'm by no means calling it strictly anecdotal, or even anecdotal at all, I'm calling the scientific evidence incomplete and necessarily based on very limited information.[/QUOTE]
This is not the one I has in mind, but my books are temporarily in Guatemala...
[url]http://www.suite101.com/content/primitive-health-wisdom-from-the-earths-oldest-race-a315499[/url] and this one
Hello! I am new here and I am very curious about the Paleo lifestyle. It is well known that people in Paleo times had much shorter lifespan. Why do you choose to follow that kind of lifestyle? Thank you very much for your kind answers.
i don't plan on being eaten by a bear or wolf and if i break a bone or badly cut myself, i have a doctor to keep me a live
[QUOTE=Sassy;229610]So was I....guess what fixed it. :D[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sigune;1169383]Hello! I am new here and I am very curious about the Paleo lifestyle. It is well known that people in Paleo times had much shorter lifespan. Why do you choose to follow that kind of lifestyle? Thank you very much for your kind answers.[/QUOTE]
Part 1: [url=http://www.marksdailyapple.com/bone-dating-life-span/]Just How Long Did Grok Live, Really? | Mark's Daily Apple[/url]
Part 2: [url=http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/]Life Expectancy in Hunter-Gatherers | Mark's Daily Apple[/url]
Further musings, just because: [url=http://www.marksdailyapple.com/hunter-gatherer-lifespan/]Why Did Grok Live So Long? | Mark's Daily Apple[/url]
In short, age-at-death estimates for adults are based on bone density, but hunter-gatherers would have far better bone health than we do today; infant and child mortality (no longer a problem) brought the average way down; and modern hunter-gatherers who survive to adulthood reach 70 about half the time, with the biggest killer being infectious disease (again, not a problem for us).