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Do you think the human race would of advanced more by not advancing?

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  • #16
    Daemonized: We are beef eaters. Gimme meat and then more meat, is our cry. But just think of this, there is more pollution in the atmosphere from all of those farting cows than there is from cars running down highways, or whatever other fossil fuels are being burned. Still, gimmee meat, right?

    I do think that there are many ways to lessen environmental impact and that they should be implemented, but watch the city councils. Most of those politically minded folk might decide to eliminate the cattle instead of the SUV's. After all, jerky doesn't go that well with tofu and sprouts on Ezekiel bread. (Just a dig here, don't take it to heart. Not meant for anyone on this forum anyway)
    In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

    shotgun always wins.

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    • #17
      All meat eaters: My post about the tofu and sprout eaters brought to mind something else. Scientists are now capable of producing meat (beef?) in the laboratory. No life; just blobs of meat. It is a tale that is moving through vegetarian circles lately. Wow! A way to get a 'humane' steak.

      Not sure how I feel about that. Sounds too much like a soylent green type thing. Maybe it will go good with horseradish.
      In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

      shotgun always wins.

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      • #18
        That United Nations cow pollution story is pretty old. I'm surprised it still has teeth, but googling it reveals more silly CW. The original report was bogus. In response the EPA reported 7.5 percent of greenhouse gas emissions came from all agriculture. That's cows, chickens, plant crops, everything. The transportation sector was at 30%. What did come out of the debate, which was heated and led by a militant anti American vegan from the UN, is that buying local is just about the best thing we can do to lower emissions. The Bush EPA was also guilty of fudging some numbers. Should cows or trucks be credited for shipping cows? Independent research still couldn't validate the UNs claims when giving cows all the possible credit. The best they could do was double the EPA number, but most agree 10-12% was about right for agriculture and 25-30% covered transportation.

        I could have this wrong, but I blogged about it way back when and I think I got it right.

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        • #19
          Another interesting angle that came out of that old debate was that grass fed cattle produced more methane and had a bigger carbon footprint than grain fed feedlot beef. The grass fed supporters countered with all that organic soil being a carbon sink and suggesting they had a net negative carbon footprint. So the feedlot folks felt they should be able to calculate the 100s of thousands of acres they were sparing with consolidated operations. They had some strong numbers and by the time both sides finished, well, beef production had a very tiny carbon footprint according to the industry. Trees were worse than cows.

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          • #20
            There was a recent Australian study along lines that livestock was just about as bad a polluter as 'factories and cars'. My point is not that we have a problem with too many cows and that we should become chemical and plant eaters. I only wished to say that there is more to the pollution thing than burning fossil fuels.
            In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

            shotgun always wins.

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            • #21
              Gator, I'm not positive, but I am fairly certain most of those studies are hooey, or at least they overstate the case against beef ag. Sure it's dirty, but not as bad as the press suggests. Here's NASA. Cars are worse. You can find tons regurgitating the livestock is worse than cars myth. It's an idea with an agenda. That always makes me leery.

              I'm all for grass fed sustainable production. It probably is a net benefit environmentally. The feedlot system is filthy (probably worse for water than air), but don't believe it is worse than transportation or coal power when it comes to possible global warming. That's a real reach. I don't believe pastured animals are close to as harmful as production corn, soy or wheat. Some would argue none of them contribute an iota.

              Too bad this drifted to the global warming. More interesting than rising oceans and super storms is how it may impact food production in 20-30 years. The crops in biggest danger are rice, soy, corn and wheat. Which puts human population in big trouble too. Maybe earth won't sustain so many of us. Some models predict complete crop failures in 40 years. Maybe Gaia's fed up with grains and misses her low carb paleolithic youth too.

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              • #22
                All studies are hooey. They are all biased by the ideas, agendas, and expectations of those doing the study. Nothing is as grand as the press suggests. The press wishes only to sell papers or capture a TV and radio audience. I am not trying to say that the beef industry is worse than whatever else. My intent was to point out that we need to look at many issues, even the ones that we wish to keep. I regret that I am not an accomplished rhetorician. Somewhere someone once said something about sticks and specks in eyes or something like that. I think that person got the idea across better than I do.

                I appreciate our dialogue.
                In the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors

                shotgun always wins.

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                • #23
                  I appreciate the dialogue too, and hope to hear more from you. That's why I brought up the food production issue of global warming, Gator. Many issues face us the next few decades. I was agreeing with you there. I'm a fan of the human race and expect things to go far better than most do though. Laboratory beef is just creepy, but science is on the verge of some stunning breakthroughs, imo.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gator View Post
                    There was a recent Australian study along lines that livestock was just about as bad a polluter as 'factories and cars'. My point is not that we have a problem with too many cows and that we should become chemical and plant eaters. I only wished to say that there is more to the pollution thing than burning fossil fuels.
                    too bad they dont go into the environmental impact of growing massive monocrops, which requires deforestation, destruction of millions (literally millions, there is a million microorganisms living in 1 tablespoon of topsoil alone! do they not count as living creatures too?) of animals habitats, decimation of topsoil, run off of topsoil, chemicals required for keeping the plants healthy now the topsoil is dead and gone, damming of rivers creating more destruction for irrigation, chemical run off into rivers and streams, fossil fuels burned in creating the dangerous chemicals of pesticides and herbacides, plowing, harvesting and shipping these plant products.
                    "The first wealth is health."
                    - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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                    • #25
                      Civilization is to human history as a serious illness is to a person's lifetime. Here's hoping we get better soon, and don't develop any fatal cancerous tumors.
                      You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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                      • #26
                        Global Warming

                        Ok, I wanted to respond to the global warming comments.

                        I'm not going to get into whether or not global warming is "real." However, the way we currently manage our sources of energy (fossil fuels and food) are UNSUSTAINABLE. Who cares if global warming is "real" or not, the fact of the matter is our way of life (westerners) is unsustainable. There are many other reasons to stop using fossil fuels besides global warming. Ie, air and water pollution, the amount of energy required to obtain those fuels, the fact that we running out of them, etc... We should all be striving to live sustainably (which is why we are all apart of this forum I'd like to think) and that includes things that most people would consider making a change to reduce/slowdown/stop global warming.
                        Last edited by trustmrtwo; 06-04-2010, 11:22 AM.

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                        • #27
                          I'm sorry but I have to do this:
                          http://wvde.state.wv.us/tt/2002/gram...artip0039.html

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                          • #28
                            don't know why people always blame cars first, guess they're the most obvious. but in reality car pollutants don't even come close to factories and power plants. those are the real problems. also, global warming or not, why not be a more efficient race with full sustainability. if we can do it it'll be a huge technological feat. this is why I try to be environmentally conscious. its a "why not" thing. however I completely support modern culture. if we broke down all the cities and the human pop lived throughout the land we would fuck the land over even more because the population would be so much more spread out. to deny us of our civilization is to deny us of the very thing that makes us human. its what our species is known for. fish swim, bears have claws, giraffes are tall, and we have stupidly large brains.
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                            Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
                            Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands
                            With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves
                            Let me forget about today until tomorrow

                            MY PRIMAL JOURNAL
                            MY PUBLIC FITDAY JOURNAL

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by unchatenfrance View Post
                              LOL...and what makes that doubly funny to me is you pulled it from the West Virginia Department of Education:
                              God is great, beer is good, people are crazy

                              Trashy Women
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8Yptnh2kg
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkG3...eature=related

                              Beef Cake's Primal Hardcore Porn<strike>Erotica<strike>...er...I mean my journal...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Beef Cake View Post
                                LOL...and what makes that doubly funny to me is you pulled it from the West Virginia Department of Education:
                                LOL yes, that is quite the twist of irony. But it was the first link that popped up in google and I was in a hurry :-)

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