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  • Jack Kruse aka The Quilt

    Why is Oprah still obese? Leptin part 3……… - Jack Kruse

    This is part 3 of a series about leptin. I'm really interested to know what you make of it. So far as I can understand it, it makes sense to me, and he certainly has nailed the experiences I have when I try to introduce exercise into my life - as well as the persistently large belly.

    However, the 30 levees and their interconnections are way beyond my comprehension. I latched onto this latest blog simply because it's the only one in there that has any recommendations for healing leptin resistance - but I can't see the why of it! Why 50g protein? Why within 30 minutes of rising? I kind of get the three meals a day and no snacking thing (I think). It's one of those ideas that I think I grasp, but I can't explain it and it all slips away again.
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

    Journalling here

  • #2
    Just ask the questions that vex you? I will answer them The thirty levees are meant to give you frame work how to protect your cells from disease. You need to use this document to refer back to as the blog posts are added and your understanding expands. My goal is to educate patients WHY things occur. You heal leptin resistance by a few simple steps. Just eating Paleo wont suffice. There is two things that make a car work.......the car itself and the gas in it. The paleo diet is the gas part of this analogy.......the car and how it works is leptin sensitivity.

    It requires timing over anything else.
    1. only 3 meals a day until your leptin sensitive. My post clearly asks you to answer the questions to see if you are. Of you can use the mirror test.
    2. Carbs below 25 gms a day until your sensitive.
    3. Never snack ever.
    4. when you rise eat within 30 minutes and protein and fat load. 50-75 grams is required......
    5. meals should be spaced. 6-8 AM, 12-2 PM, and 5-7 PM.

    The fuel is paleo.......Just keep following with me as I go. I will give you the tools to outsource your doctor. Read my story.......I am out to change my profession

    Jack Kruse

    Comment


    • #3
      LOL, Jack - you're everywhere!!

      I reckon I'm definitely leptin resistant - the mirror test plus the experience of exercise you mention, the big belly that doesn't really shift etc etc etc. I have OK bloods (but CRP not tested) so my doc isn't much interested in me. He just says to eat whole grains and exercise. I also get physically hurt really easily and I'm very weak. So I want to fix this if I can. I've been paleo for 3 1/2 months, focused on managing IBS and eliminating the foods that trigger me right now - which I've done. Now I'm ready to move into the next area for improving my health, and I guess leptin is the place to go. I'm about 30kg overweight (66lbs).

      I've been reading your blog as well as what you write at Paleohacks, and I'm lost in the science to be honest. I'll keep reading, but in the meantime I really appreciate the bullet pointed guidance you've provided here and in the discussion about Oprah on the latest blog. I would much prefer to be actively trying to help myself WHILE I wait for the next blog, than waiting for the next instalment to see if I can figure out what to do!

      I do have a question about your questions, though; paleo has very much improved my carb cravings and hunger, so they're probably not useful guides as they would have been pre-paleo. That leaves the questions about exercise and rest. The exercise question isn't one I can answer as I'm not doing any exercise right now, beyond walking the dog fairly slowly. Do you suggest I start?? I was waiting til some of the weight had come off, and I was feeling less physically compromised. Feeling rested in the morning, if I go to bed without having stared at the computer all evening, is also OK. Having energy to do the dishes in the evening and then have sex before sleep - that's a good measure of whether I'm functioning at a good energy level!! Is that the kind of improvement you'd expect (is so, my husband is gonna really like you, lol).

      Thanks
      Started Feb 18 2011

      Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

      Journalling here

      Comment


      • #4
        Jac, I'm new to this leptin issue. I just listened to Kruse on Jimmy Moore's blog. Then went to K's blog. It is all rather complicated, but sounds reasonable. Eating has begun to be uninteresting, which I suppose is good since for too many years I was rewarding the sugar-craving monster in my brain.

        Also, how does one know when s/he is no longer leptin sensitive?
        Last edited by Digby; 06-08-2011, 08:06 PM.
        This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

        Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
        Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

        Comment


        • #5
          Jack has a list of questions that indicate being leptin sensitive - like losing hunger and cravings, sweating during exercise etc. I thought I'd been doing pretty well, but today my cravings are back, in spite of having done nothing new to provoke them! So I guess I should give this a try. One of my worries is that I tend to feel pretty crap on low carb. Getting below 25 is likely to be total torture.
          Started Feb 18 2011

          Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

          Journalling here

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm right in the middle of trying to sort this leptin thing out too. I know I had high rT3 before (2007) so I'm very interested. I just downloaded Mastering Leptin and I'm flipping through it.

            I'm not sure why Mastering Leptin is telling people to exercise so much when it doesn't seem to help one bit until you get things sorted out. They don't get into the details of food choices much but they don't seem too Primal or low carb, they just talk about intervals like 3 meals a day and no snacking.

            This leptin thing takes some of the momentum from the amateurs that keep saying IF is the fix for EVERYthing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jac View Post
              Jack has a list of questions that indicate being leptin sensitive - like losing hunger and cravings, sweating during exercise etc. I thought I'd been doing pretty well, but today my cravings are back, in spite of having done nothing new to provoke them! So I guess I should give this a try. One of my worries is that I tend to feel pretty crap on low carb. Getting below 25 is likely to be total torture.
              Where is the list of questions? I haven't located it.

              Found them!
              Last edited by SugarBaby; 06-09-2011, 11:44 AM. Reason: new info
              WWW.SUGARAHOLICS.COM

              I was a sugarbaby; meaning since I was born I was given lots of sugar, and ate lots of processed foods, especially sweets until I was into my thirties. Most people in the west were/are sugarbabies.

              “How does today’s youngster educate his sense of taste? By submerging it in a sea of sugar from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed.” W. Root and Richard DeRochemont, Eating in America (1976)

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm wondering how long it take to reverse LR, on average.
                WWW.SUGARAHOLICS.COM

                I was a sugarbaby; meaning since I was born I was given lots of sugar, and ate lots of processed foods, especially sweets until I was into my thirties. Most people in the west were/are sugarbabies.

                “How does today’s youngster educate his sense of taste? By submerging it in a sea of sugar from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed.” W. Root and Richard DeRochemont, Eating in America (1976)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's what I found: Her [Oprah] goal is to focus on becoming leptin sensitive by being required by eating 50 grams of protein at breakfast everyday within 30 minutes of rising, eliminating all snacking especially past 730 PM, eating three meals a day, and limiting her carb intake below fifty grams per day for about 6-8 weeks. In my practice, over the last 5 years that is about the bell curve I have seen for most patients to require their regain their signaling back.
                  WWW.SUGARAHOLICS.COM

                  I was a sugarbaby; meaning since I was born I was given lots of sugar, and ate lots of processed foods, especially sweets until I was into my thirties. Most people in the west were/are sugarbabies.

                  “How does today’s youngster educate his sense of taste? By submerging it in a sea of sugar from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed.” W. Root and Richard DeRochemont, Eating in America (1976)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SugarBaby View Post
                    Where is the list of questions? I haven't located it.

                    Found them!
                    I think this is the list. Affirmative answers mean you're leptin sensitive. Not a huge list.

                    Here are my questions for assessing a patients leptin status…….. Do you notice you sweat more and have less muscle fatigue when you do exercise now? Have your carb cravings gone away? Is your hunger under control now? And are you waking up more refreshed?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Digby View Post
                      J

                      Also, how does one know when s/he is no longer leptin sensitive?
                      THIS???? Leptin has been showing up alot on the mda forum...so I started looking for more info to educate myself... the light hasn't gone on for me w/regards to full understanding...but I want to know the key to this....I think this might be why I've plateaued. now to start reading... Dr. Kruse's blog...
                      The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose. ~ Ayn Rand
                      What's your purpose? Mine is Optimal Health.

                      Converted to PB November 2010
                      SW 190lb
                      Leptin Reset Redux (1Sep 2011) SW 170lbs
                      25 Sep 2011 160lbs
                      1 Dec 2011 158lbs!
                      GW ~135lbs
                      5'3"
                      Mother of 2, and wife to a kick ass husband...trying to contain chaos and havoc on a daily basis

                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread40609.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I downloaded Mastering Leptin last night. It has some additional information in it about leptin, insulin and ghrelin which is good. They also had some information that they haven't filtered all that well, so their recommendations don't make sense.I found it really interesting to look at where the citations and rationales are absent from the Quilt and ML. ML has few good supports, for example, for their section on saturated fat and exercise. The Quilt has few around the hard and fast rules that are promoted. But the basic science underpinning both approaches works.

                        Carbs: this is an area where I struggled with both ML and the Quilt. ML points out that 'some' carbohydrates are necessary for normal ghrelin activity - which includes gastric motility, the release of stomach acid to digest protein, and efficient stomach emptying. (These are problem areas in my IBS). They don't quantify 'some' carbs though, and they haven't qualified the type of carbs at all; grains are acceptable for them. The Quilt is very restrictive with a limit of 25g of carbs within paleo guidelines. This level of carbs tends to create problems with my gut that I hadn't traced back to ghrelin issues before today. I can't find any citations or rationale that support very low carbs specifically to heal leptin resistance - and ML and the Jaminets have some convincing arguments that fit with my own (n = 1) experience. I'm open to convincing, but it's not an area I'll experiment with any more. I need evidence before I take that on again.

                        Meal timing: ML doesn't emphasise the 'within 30 minutes' rule, and later in the book (the fighting disease section) actually say that 3 meals a day is maximum, not optimal, and that the main point of the meal timing is to prevent snacking. They say that 2 meals a day is fine for some people. The Quilt's rationale is also about preventing snacking, and Jack doesn't make any allowances for individuals who have previously healed enough for this to not be an issue. The key point they both agree on is that to encourage a healthy cycle of leptin, insulin, ghrelin and NPY, you need to have at least 5 hours between meals and at least 12 hours of fasting between dinner and breakfast, during which you sleep. The timing of dinner at least 3 hours before sleep is also consistent and well supported.

                        Fat: ML is against high or even moderate fat, but later says that 'the primary neurotransmitter relating to leptin is dopamine. Dopamine is involved with reward behavior. The fastest way to increase dopamine is to eat fat; this in turn raises leptin and shuts off NPY'. Fat intake isn't quantified or particularly well qualified. The Quilt includes fat - not quantified, but paleo, however there is little (so far) in the way of rationale. However, for most paleo folk the rationale isn't needed as we've done lots of reading about it already. I'm very interested in Paleobird's experiences of limiting her fat intake to take off the last percentages of her overweight, though - it's something that should be revisited in the context of women and obesity as most of the literature focuses on normal weight and/or men. In particular, peri and postmenopausal women challenge the received paleo wisdom of 'eat more fat'.

                        Exercise: ML supports chronic cardio, but in spite of their citations from CW, they emphasise the feeling of being refreshed during and after exercise - which kind of shoots down their recommendation until a person is metabolically fixed and lean. They need to revisit this section with an open mind as to what kind of movement will provide the benefits of improved muscle efficiency.

                        One thing I like about the Quilt is the assumption that this eating plan can be tailored after 6 - 8 weeks. ML treats it like a life sentence. I suspect this is because of the paleo underpinnings for the Quilt which provide lifelong eating and lifestyle guidelines so stopping after a couple of months doesn't revert to the SAD. Stopping the ML eating plan leaves no backup at all, and SAD eating will no doubt resume.

                        So at this point in my reading, I'm going to try the protein and fat in the morning, abstain from eating after about 7pm, keep dinner light, and go at least 5 hours between eating. I'm not low-carbing beyond the natural levels that paleo tends to create, nor am I going to restrict fat. It'll be interesting to see where this goes!
                        Last edited by Jac; 06-09-2011, 01:33 PM.
                        Started Feb 18 2011

                        Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                        Journalling here

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shijin13 View Post
                          THIS???? Leptin has been showing up alot on the mda forum...so I started looking for more info to educate myself... the light hasn't gone on for me w/regards to full understanding...but I want to know the key to this....I think this might be why I've plateaued. now to start reading... Dr. Kruse's blog...
                          Shijin, I think Digby had a typo there - it's about being no longer leptin resistant. The things that I resonated with the most were poor quality of sleep, and a leadenness when I try to exercise. I tend to get exhausted well before I can raise a sweat. You'll find his questions to assess leptin sensitivity towards the end of the Oprah blog entry. I wish he'd bullet point them or something, though - they're not easy to see!
                          Started Feb 18 2011

                          Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                          Journalling here

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I had some of the same concerns about ML too.

                            I put this on another forum and I guess I will cut and paste it here..

                            I'm trying to unravel this leptin thing and downloaded Mastering Leptin by Byron and Mary Guignon Richards. I thought these two pages were pretty funny, since they just go off on Atkins-

                            P1-

                            P2


                            I'm not buying everything in this book just because they say so. I'm trying to pull from it what I can. Their leptin diet matches Dr Kruse's recommendations, 50 g of protein early in the morning, no snacks and 3 meals. I don't agree with them all about milk.

                            They don't even mention IF in the book as far as I can tell. This is notable because the IF meme is just out of control on the popular forums, as if it were the fix to EVERYthing.

                            The two above pages are not going to be popular with Primal folks too who don't see any limits to saturated fat.

                            This book is interesting but weak. All the chapters are like these two pages, heavy on summary and opinion, but they just gloss over the points as if you should assume they are right.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, I agree. As a post menopausal woman I don't know what to make of IFing because most of what's written so far seems to come from personal experiences of people far from my physical profile. I'll wait and see on that one.

                              The saturated fat argument is interesting, too. I suspect there's been a leap in logic that goes from "low fat and vege fats are not healthy" to "we need fat to be healthy" to "eat more MUFAs" to "eat LOTS of MUFAS". I agree with the first three points and can find evidence to support them. The latter point, not so much.

                              Also interesting that there is a mention of uncoupled protein 3, but no citations and it's not clear what their critique is of Atkins in this regard - if a person is losing weight on a high protein diet, I'd have thought that they're demonstrably leptin sensitive?? And if that's the case, then leptin is activating UP3 in order to get rid of excess fat . . . so what's the problem??
                              Last edited by Jac; 06-09-2011, 02:18 PM.
                              Started Feb 18 2011

                              Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                              Journalling here

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