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Jack Kruse aka The Quilt

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  • #16
    It would seem to me that the problem with IF'ing for folks who are leptin resistant, is that it they are abstaining from food despite feeling some hunger because they are trying to go a set period of time fasting, they are triggering the "starvation response" and overiding the body's natural "time to refuel' signals (which are leptin driven). If they are simply not eating breakfast in the morning at a set time, but waiting to eat the first meal until they are truly hungry, that is a totally different metabolic picture.

    intentional fasting for those who are not leptin resistant is totally different than for those who are. Leptin resistance means your body perceives you are in a near constant state of "almost about to starve to death" - because your brain is not getting the message that you are full of energy stores. Therefore it does everything it can to slow metabolism and conserve energy. Anything a leptin resistant person does that might reinforce the "i am starving" experience works against restoring active metabolism and fat burning.

    So, if you can go 16 hours between dinner and breakfast because you are genuinely not interested in food, and not hungry it is probably OK. But, if you are forcing yourself to fast for 16 hours because you think it will help you lose weight but it is a struggle, it is probably counterproductive.

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    • #17
      What would you suggest for someone who only has a 30 minute window to workout pretty much as soon as they get out of bed? Obviously, that kills the theory of eating 50g of protein within 30 min of waking.
      Georgette

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      • #18
        for last 4 month or so, I have basically followed leptin resistance repair diet without knowing it LOL. used to get up at 6am, fix high protein breakfast (usually 2 egg, 3 bacon, sauteed cabbages and protein shake) about 50 gm of protein every morning. after 1st month, I was eating 3 meals a day. my target was 150gm of protein a day and was taking in about 60-70gm of carbs. now, I am down 45lb, but I have to workout in the morning. so we take protein shake before workout (27gm of protein) then have breakfast after workout. been doing this for about a week now. hoping that protein shake is enough to reduce AM cortisol when it fortified with high protein breakfast 1 hour later.

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        • #19
          I don't know what the rationale for eating 50g of protein within 30 minutes of arising is. He did not post any scientific studies or biochemistry or even logic for this. It seems to me that if you are NOT hungry right away, it is better to wait to eat until later. You prolong the period of fat burning. As soon as you eat, your hormones go into energy storage mode to tuck away all those calories for later use (so you don't have to eat 6 times a day).

          It makes sense to me to go 5-6 hours between eating during the day. That gives the body time to go from energy storage mode for an hour or two after eating, back into energy retrieval and fat burning. Everytime you eat, your hormones are switched over to storage mode, so it is logical to find a way to eat fewer times per day. Primal eating makes it possible to go 5-6 hours without eating and not feel hungry.

          My partner is one of the leptin resistant types and since going primal she has experienced very little weight loss, but a big improvement in not feeling hungry and not needing to eat as frequently. Forcing herself to eat immediately upon arising just seems wrong to her (and to me, but I am not leptin resistant). Right now it sounds about as wrong as forcing yourself to eat "6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism primed" - Eating when not hungry overrides the natural complex hormonal control of appetite, hunger and satiety that we are trying to restore. Rather than "priming metabolism" - it sends a metabolism that is very comfortably burning body fat into energy storage mode.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Barb View Post
            I don't know what the rationale for eating 50g of protein within 30 minutes of arising is. He did not post any scientific studies or biochemistry or even logic for this. It seems to me that if you are NOT hungry right away, it is better to wait to eat until later. You prolong the period of fat burning. As soon as you eat, your hormones go into energy storage mode to tuck away all those calories for later use (so you don't have to eat 6 times a day).
            +1
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            • #21
              I agree Barb - it seems that force feeding that way would increase cortisol in itself, wouldn't it?? I'm skipping between 2 threads here, but I posted on the other one that I reckon it's important to eat as soon as you get hungry in the morning (or whenever) if you're already adapted to the paleo way of eating
              Started Feb 18 2011

              Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

              Journalling here

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              • #22
                Does it still make sense to eat 50g of protein first thing in the morning when you're hungry? I plan on getting the book, just trying to figure out when cause I think I may be leptin sensitive or whatever it is. I'm losing fat, seems to be dropping fat on top and legs faster than I am the midsection. Are there any other rules to eating for leptin sensitivity?
                Georgette

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                • #23
                  The protein, with fat, seems to turn off NPY and increase sensitivity to leptin, which allows the muscles to make good use of the available energy and the body to release unnecessary fat. So I do agree with eating a hefty dose of protein. Mastering leptin notes that later meals can have less protein, but this initial hit seems to flip a switch in the body. Quilt notes that it's a temporary thing to do, only for a couple of months max, to get your body into normal hormonal patterns again.

                  The only other consistent advice is to avoid snacking, eat with at least 5 hours between meals, don't eat in the evening so you go to bed with no eating for at least 3 hours prior - this latter advice is to maximise fat burning overnight and to restore normal levels of leptin etc.

                  If you're already losing fat, you're probably at least partially leptin sensitive - good for you!!
                  Started Feb 18 2011

                  Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                  Journalling here

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jac View Post
                    The protein, with fat, seems to turn off NPY and increase sensitivity to leptin, which allows the muscles to make good use of the available energy and the body to release unnecessary fat. So I do agree with eating a hefty dose of protein. Mastering leptin notes that later meals can have less protein, but this initial hit seems to flip a switch in the body. Quilt notes that it's a temporary thing to do, only for a couple of months max, to get your body into normal hormonal patterns again.

                    The only other consistent advice is to avoid snacking, eat with at least 5 hours between meals, don't eat in the evening so you go to bed with no eating for at least 3 hours prior - this latter advice is to maximise fat burning overnight and to restore normal levels of leptin etc.

                    If you're already losing fat, you're probably at least partially leptin sensitive - good for you!!
                    I don't eat dinner most nights until 730-8PM and typically in bed between9-10:30. I don't get home from work until 6:30PM. Even making something ahead of time sometimes doesn't necessarily mean I can eat by 7. Trying to figure out how I can make this work.
                    Georgette

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by geostump View Post
                      I don't eat dinner most nights until 730-8PM and typically in bed between9-10:30. I don't get home from work until 6:30PM. Even making something ahead of time sometimes doesn't necessarily mean I can eat by 7. Trying to figure out how I can make this work.
                      Oh, yes, I remember you posting about your crazy schedule before . If you're already losing, do you need to worry about it?? Your midsection might be the last to go, but eventually it will. I'm the same, really, losing bits on my legs and neck, waist is still the same truck tyre it's been for years.
                      Started Feb 18 2011

                      Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                      Journalling here

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                      • #26
                        I already don't snack much at all. Once a week if at all. I'm going to start eating more like this on Monday. At least let me enjoy my weekend. I have a baby shower tomorrow
                        Georgette

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                        • #27
                          DFH: does ML say why to have the 50g protein first thing? Is their rational same as Kruse?
                          This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

                          Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
                          Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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                          • #28
                            Here's another thing I thought of. During my TOM I have anywhere between 1-3 days where I just cannot touch food at all period. I can't stomach it and food just nauseates me. How would I deal with this?
                            Georgette

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Digby View Post
                              DFH: does ML say why to have the 50g protein first thing? Is their rational same as Kruse?
                              I hope it's OK to paste a few pages. I can't cut-and-paste.







                              Source: Amazon.com: Mastering Leptin: The Leptin Diet, Solving Obesity and Preventing Disease, Second Edition (9780972712118): Byron J. Richards, Mary Guignon Richards: Books

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                              • #30
                                The protein explanation makes good sense. I'm not buying everything they say about which foods.

                                As far as all the IF fans on here, note what Dr Kruse said about it on Jimmy Moore's forum last night-

                                ..IF is a terrible idea if youre leptin resistant. When youre sensitive it is perfectly fine. If you IF too early you can increase cell death via autophagy. Not good...
                                -Dr Kruse
                                Before the IF fans get out the torches and pitchforks, that quote comes from someone who has been there and done that.

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