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  • #46
    Originally posted by FairyRae View Post
    nuts and seeds having *higher* levels of phytic acid than GRAINS or LEGUMES!
    true, which is why they are ideally soaked, or when appropriate, sprouted before use. However, our intake should be minimal regardless.

    Originally posted by doug View Post
    I am glad this is being discussed. I bought the book and just started my second read through. There are a lot of facinating concepts. Two concepts in particular protein restriction and the ketogenic fast.

    Overall I think it is worth reading and it is probably more right than wrong.
    I'm not sure I agree with the protein restriction to the degree they emphasize it. Certainly no more than 30% of cals, but limited to 200 cals total? (ETA: this isn't correct...it's 200-600 cals) As Stabby has pointed out numerous times, it appears that we are absolutely adapted for significant protein consumption.
    Last edited by cillakat; 11-09-2010, 06:45 PM.



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    • #47
      My sis bought the book and I'm borrowing it.

      I'd love to talk a/b their supp recs, specifically the 'supplement copper and avoid extra zinc' advice. I thought zinc deficiency was far more common than copper deficiency...

      Also, as far as macro recs go, they have a range for both carbs and protein. (Although I agree they really stress the protein restriction...)

      Carbs: 200-600 cals (50-150 g) a day (plus 1/2 lb of non starchy veg) w/ 400 cals (100g) being the general rec for most folks
      Protein: 200-600 cals (50-150 g) a day, but around 500-600 cals *if carbs are limited*

      Carb and Protein together should add up to at least 600 cals or 150 g total (so if you go light on one, up the other etc.)

      I agree w/ both doug and cillakat that the book promotes choosing low toxin starches over fructose for the majority of carb intake. They also mention that if/when you eat fruit, do NOT eat it w/ PUFAs as the fructose can damage PUFAs. (So keep your berries w/ cream, etc...Makes me wonder about fruit salsas and fish types of dishes...)
      Last edited by FairyRae; 11-08-2010, 07:31 PM.
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      • #48
        Originally posted by FairyRae View Post
        I'd love to talk a/b their supp recs, specifically the 'supplement copper and avoid extra zinc' advice. I thought zinc deficiency was far more common than copper deficiency...
        Time tends to be in short supply today so there isn't as much time to talk about this as I'd like but ftmp and for most people, zinc deficiency tends to be problematic - especially if liver is being ingested regularly. Individuals can 'track and treat'....track their intake of zinc and copper and treat insufficiency based on symptoms.


        Carbs: 200-600 cals (50-150 g) a day (plus 1/2 lb of non starchy veg) w/ 400 cals (100g) being the general rec for most folks
        Protein: 200-600 cals (50-150 g) a day, but around 500-600 cals *if carbs are limited*

        Carb and Protein together should add up to at least 600 cals or 150 g total (so if you go light on one, up the other etc.)
        - and at least 200cal of each, why white rice rather than the more nutrient dense options?. For those struggling with weight loss and sugar addiction, minimizing starch may be beneficial.

        WRT 'starch as a requirement' theory. His position is understandable: our livers aren't big enough, effective enough to produce all of our glucose needs via gluconeogensis. However, there are enough errors in the book along with his heavy reliance of 'correlation' that he puts forth as gospel truth that make me wonder if he couldn't be wrong about this as well.

        They also mention that if/when you eat fruit, do NOT eat it w/ PUFAs as the fructose can damage PUFAs. (So keep your berries w/ cream, etc...Makes me wonder about fruit salsas and fish types of dishes...)
        I guess it depends on how crazy you want to make yourself, what your personal goals are, how important those food combinations are to you etc etc. I find myself rarely eating fruit but if I those kinds of combos were important. meaningful parts of my food intake, I'd probably keep going with it while accepting that it wasn't optimal and choosing not to worry about it.

        K
        Last edited by cillakat; 11-09-2010, 06:50 PM.



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        • #49
          Originally posted by cillakat View Post
          I don't have as much time to talk about this as I'd like but ftmp and for most people, I disagree with his recommendation on this one. Individuals can 'track and treat'....track their intake of zinc and copper and treat insufficiency based on symptoms.
          Would love to hear more on the symptoms for tracking and treating this!! (I def. think I lean towards more zinc def. than copper def....)


          - and at least 200cal of each, minimum I still mostly disagree with the white rice suggstion....it's just so void of nutrition compared to a sweet potato. and for those struggling with weight loss/addiction, I'd probably still lean toward less/no starch.
          I personally *feel it* if I eat white rice, far more so than eating sweet potato etc. It is uncomfortable--like a sugar high or something...Its something I just prefer *not* to eat. (I don't like it any way...)

          I'm not sure I'm yet on board with the 'starch as a requirement' theory. I understand his position - that our livers aren't big enough, effective enough to produce all of our glucose needs via gluconeogensis.
          I was wondering if one could get the amount of glucose he recs from non-starchy veg (looking at net carbs instead of total carbs, and aiming to get at least 50 net carbs from non-starchy veg?) I personally don't think I would feel better eating anywhere near the amount of starch recommended in the book.

          but i don't know.... there are enough examples in the book of his heavy reliance of 'correlation' that he puts forth as gospel truth and I do think he's wrong about a number of things so I'm not sure he's right about this one.
          I'd love to see what else you and others feel they're wrong on. I personally think the 'eat what you are, all mammals eat the same thing' stuff is strange and not really accurate...

          I guess it depends on how crazy you want to make yourself, what your personal goals are, how important those food combinations are to you etc etc. I find myself rarely eating fruit but if I those kinds of combos were important. meaningful parts of my food intake, I'd probably keep going with it while accepting that it wasn't optimal and choosing not to worry about it.
          Thanks. I've never been one for food combining, although this kind of freaked me out. I do a green smoothie each day w/ 1/2-1 cup berries, 2.5 cups mixed greens, coconut milk, avocado and stevia. I had been drinking it w/ salmon for my first meal of the day, and its such a quick and easy way to get in a good amount of nutrient dense produce and I like drinking it! I *don't* want to drink it completely separately from meals (I really like to IF and eat all my food at once during 2 big meals) sooo... I may try not to eat it w/ salmon b/c of the PUFAs but maybe w/ beef? We'll see....
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          • #50
            White rice/brown rice. That was equated with beriberi/no beriberi. Put another way--- no thiamine/ thiamine.
            Tayatha om bekandze

            Bekandze maha bekandze

            Randza samu gate soha

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            • #51
              I've been reading the Perfect Health Diet blog and remain interested in the book even while I have some difficulty with the notion--perhaps wrongly and due to increasing distrust of the Pharmaceutical/Medical establishment's tendency to turn every illness into an opportunity to make money when better options exist--that diseases such as MS, Alzheimer's and rheumatoid arthritis are actually infections requiring long, strong chemical interventions. It's that aspect I'd like people's thoughts on.

              Has anyone here had experience with or heard reliable evidence regarding a person with MS, Alzheimer's or RA being treated as an infection long and aggressively (as with the protocols the Perfect Health Diet authors advise) and achieving success? Or have any thoughts on this?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by liss View Post
                I've been reading the Perfect Health Diet blog and remain interested in the book even while I have some difficulty with the notion--perhaps wrongly and due to increasing distrust of the Pharmaceutical/Medical establishment's tendency to turn every illness into an opportunity to make money when better options exist--that diseases such as MS, Alzheimer's and rheumatoid arthritis are actually infections requiring long, strong chemical interventions. It's that aspect I'd like people's thoughts on.
                I don't agree with him. ftmp.

                Has anyone here had experience with or heard reliable evidence regarding a person with MS, Alzheimer's or RA being treated as an infection long and aggressively (as with the protocols the Perfect Health Diet authors advise) and achieving success? Or have any thoughts on this?
                I suspect that some of the success those with MS are having are really the result of sufficient vitamin d over the long long term - ditto for RA. Afterall, most folks who are treating these diseases in non-traditional ways (even though allopathic medicine is required in these tx protocols) are also likely making *major* dietary changes and optimizing D levels.

                And I (no secret here) disagree with him on D levels.



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                • #53
                  Thanks Kat. You and I are in agreement on D3. I've given away many bottles of the 2000 IU olive-oil-based D3 drops as gifts in the last few years. I push it relentlessly.

                  Someone's first round of MS can also appear "cured" when in fact it's only gone into temporary remission.

                  Disappointing. I will probably still check out the book at some point. I admire what they're trying to do.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by cillakat View Post
                    I'm not sure I agree with the protein restriction to the degree they emphasize it. Certainly no more than 30% of cals, but limited to 200 cals total? (ETA: this isn't correct...it's 200-600 cals) As Stabby has pointed out numerous times, it appears that we are absolutely adapted for significant protein consumption.
                    I don't think I ever caught those points from Stabby. What are the benefits of protein at 30%? Or even above 20%? I don't think any of the healthy HG groups go above 20% normally (maybe the inuit?). Not sure if protein restricted under 10% is optimal, but there seems to be some benefits in keeping it in the 10-20% as long as glucose requirements are met.

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                    • #55
                      This is a great thread.

                      You may think that I'm out to lunch but I think there is a perfect diet. Unfortunately years of eating crap and lack of exercise means most middle aged people have "battle scars" and they need to adjust their "perfect diet" to fine tune it to suit their own needs.

                      Isn't it weird that I'm suggesting you fine tune your diet instead taking a drug?

                      I wanted to be a doctor, but I didn't have the right attitude. I kept losing my "patience".

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                      • #56
                        cillakat, what exactly do you disagree with about vitamin d?

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                        • #57
                          In the book he recs folks should get around 2500 IUs (I believe), which is just too low...
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                          "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by FairyRae View Post
                            I'd love to talk a/b their supp recs, specifically the 'supplement copper and avoid extra zinc' advice. I thought zinc deficiency was far more common than copper deficiency...
                            Me, too.

                            Does it depend on what you drink? Soft water standing in copper pipes = copper leaching into drinking water.

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                            • #59
                              I just ordered my copy of this book. Sounds like it is mostly on target, from what I'm reading here.

                              Random comments: My pipes are mostly copper and our water is to the acid side. I'm not supplementing copper. Fuggebaboutid.

                              Comedy comment: Bought a tin of premium tuna today. Label says both, "no fat", and, "omega-3". How do they do that?

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                              • #60
                                I think I'm buying this book.

                                I ate some rice today, since I recently decided to add some more carbs to my diet (rice and potatoes usually)...I feel better if I eat some. Anyway, rice doesn't start any cravings going in me, I never finish the serving. In Miami, it's hard to avoid rice anyway, what with all the island people who live here.

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