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  • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
    DFH, please define "natural" as you see it in terms of thyroid meds. In other words, what exactly is the name of the "natural" active ingredient in your meds?

    Also your comments here:

    are a great example of what Alex was saying here:

    Which is to say, what works for you does not mean that what works for others is BS. Your stance on thyroid issues is beginning to sound like captaineight's view on Taubes and CI/CO.

    Emphasis mine

    It goes without saying that everyone on this forum is speaking from their own point of view. I'm not going to drop a "fine print" disclaimer at the end of every single post. If you think that I don't know that I'm writing from my own biased view, you are not giving me enough credit. I think about that and post my opinion anyway, assuming that readers are smart enough to know that.

    I'm not going to attempt to prove to any doubter that there is in fact a serious problem with dissatisfied patients in endocrinology.
    It's real.

    I don't have a material data sheet on my natural T3. It's referred to as "bio-identical," and comes from a dispensary. My understanding is that this is not "synthetic" like Synthroid is. You can try and tell me there is no difference if you want to, but if you do that, go ahead and explain why Synthroid sucked and my rT3 went sky high when I was using it, and why I'm doing fine on T3.


    • Originally posted by Adrianag View Post
      I know you've posted his name on the forum before but I can't find it. Can you give me his name? I have a friend who sounds like he needs him pronto!
      Here's where I go-
      Bioidentical Hormone Replacement, Fibromyalgia Symptoms, Thyroid Treatment, Fatigue | Holtorf Medical Group

      My doc is Dr Wightman.

      If anyone who is skeptical wishes to browse the handouts or explain why the "bio-identical" meds are nonsense, feel free, but this place sorted out problems that no one else could. That is worth a lot to me. At some point you go with what actually works, ya know?


      • Originally posted by JKC View Post
        I went from synthetic t4 (synthroid) to synthetic t3 (cytomel) and had a huge quality of life increase. It was not the issue of if it was synthetic or not, it was just that t3 suited me much better than t4. DFH, it sounds like you went from t4 to t3. It could be that a lot of the improvement you had was not a matter of synthetic vs natural, but of t4 vs t3.
        That is certainly a possibility.

        On this one Im going with the "appeal to authority" excuse. My doc wont touch synthetics, and he figured out problems no one else could. As I said above, at some point, you go with the people that get results. I was tired of bad drs.

        If people are doing synthetics and they are happy with their weight and blood tests, fine. I'm happy for them.


        • DFH, I'm am delighted you found something at works for you. What bothers me is your "bullshit", response to other views/beliefs/paths.

          I have experienced great dissatifaction at the hands of an endo. My experience has lead me to think they tend to be into "numbers" and stay within the "box". However that is a generalization born from my experience. My experience/generalization does not make my perception globally true.

          I also see merit in "bio-identical" hormones. I am on estradiol, a bio-identical form of estrogen, instead of premarin-which is not bio-identical. Bio-identical simply means to me, that the chemical structure matches that which is made by the body. It does not mean natural and since it is dispensed after being made in a lab/pharmacy it is synthetic.

          Yes, there is a difference between Synthroid and the meds you take. Synthroid is a T4 only med,Yours is T3 only. Yours also, most likely, has different filler,etc.

          As to why Synthroid sucked for you, my answer is supposition-- I think your rt3 issues MAY have started with your understandable/medical corticosteroid use. Those issues were exascerbated by sudden withdrawal of the steroids and starting Synthroid without finding/treating any adrenal issues first. Even the Synthroid insert warns against taking it with untreated adrenal issues.

          Who's to say, and you will never know, if you would have done better on Synthroid if your adrenal issues had been addressed first. It doesn't really matter. You have found what works for you.

          I dont and wont call your path to health bullshit. I'd appreciate the same respect, consideration, and courtesy for my path and the path of others.


          • Originally posted by marcadav View Post
            DFH, I'm am delighted you found something at works for you. What bothers me is your "bullshit", response to other views/beliefs/paths. ...

            I dont and wont call your path to health bullshit. I'd appreciate the same respect, consideration, and courtesy for my path and the path of others.
            We are having a communication problem. When I used the word bullshit above, it was in reference to your claim that I was doing the "Cap-8/anti-Taubes crusade" thing (or sounding like it, or something) and the fact that you clipped that incoherent rant by Apex P. from another thread. I responded to that incoherent rant with a request for a redo because I basically can't read it!

            I wasn't calling anyone else's path bullshit, I'm not sure how you got that.

            Back to the topic, maybe we can agree that people should do what works for them, just like they should do with the different ways to live Primal.

            I don't hold back on stating my OPINION and I don't think I should have to. Everyone can handle opinion and people are going to do what they want to do anyway.

            I think your "High rT3 due to adrenals" hypotheses is reasonable, and yeah, we just can't know for sure. What I do know is:

            -I'm not the only person that was given a lot of the strong steroid Prednisone, and this could explain a lot of what went wrong (adrenals crashed before thyroid). The dr didn't schedule any follow up later to test for possible side effects, and all the docs I saw for years after that would not pay any attention to this and other clues, even though I tried over and over to explain how and when the mess started. Seems a bit illogical to me.

            -When I did see docs for thyroid, they were not trained to look at the adrenals so they missed chances to see clues that would have been there. Seems a bit illogical to me. They just do one test and have one pill, pretty much.

            -My doc that figured the mess out said that they knew that some patients developed high rT3 while taking Synthroid. Typically the dose would be high, the patient 285-300 lb or more, they dont eat much, and TSH isn't that bad. He called it "reverse T3 syndrome." The fix is to manage thyroid function by T3, not TSH, use natural T3 meds, and of course fix the other problems. Was he mistaken and the "adrenals did it first" hypothesis is correct instead? I don't know. Since testing adrenal function is not on the list of things to do for CW endos, it doesn't matter. No one is going to look for it. I would have to know that somehow and treat myself or find a doc that would, assuming I would have been able to figure that out.


            • Hello, folks.
              I realize these posts I'm reading here are a bit old, but I would like to throw a couple of pennies in for anyone who is lost in the vicious circle of doctors diagnoses.

              The Agony
              I am almost 43. I have experienced a lifetime of health related frustrations, the greatest of which has been endometriosis, reactive hypoglycemia is turning into diabetes, hypothyroidism and a lovely little hiatal hernia. Most of my life I refused to subject myself to the burden of doctor's bills and medicines that I must take ritualistically. Partially because I am not good with the whole discipline thing and mainly because I was able to trick myself into believing that I could heal myself somehow, force myself to behave/act normally and thereby becoming normal... whatever. In some circles that is called denial.

              After becoming so broken down, with depression from the infertility, fat from hormone insanity and disintegrating teeth from free flowing stomach acid I finally caved in and started seeing doctors. Fast forward years later, I'm on Armour pig thyroid to stabilize the hormones, omeprazole to remove the acid factor, recovery meetings to deal with the infertility depression, Narcotic, NSAID and valerian cocktails to decrease the endometriosis pain (which has now worked it's way into my intestines), prescription diuretics to keep my legs from swelling so bad they had bleeding fissures and while the thyroid supplement lost me a couple pounds and got my memory back, I quickly began putting on weight like nobody's business, can't hardly move around or even breath right. Forget the infertility depression, I'm so fat now I can't even imagine the horror my husband experiences when he sees me naked.

              This is not me! I used to free climb sheer faces, run sprints for fun and climb trees because they were there. And I'm losing my mind from the constant run around from doctors that were sweet and really meant well, but were not looking at the big picture of my life. So in a moment of frustration 2 1/2 months ago, I finally cried out to my Creator to tell me how to fix my body and long story short, He led me to the Daily Apple. I'm not a doctor and I can't give any kind of clinical opinion, but I can say that I see lives getting cluttered with dependencies and fears (my own included) and I will not believe that we are so mistakenly made that we must live our lives in health related misery and the endless cycle of lab drugs and their respective interactions.

              The Ecstasy
              I ate approximately 58 grams of carbs yesterday and almost no protein (I've been 95% primal for the last two months, averaging about 20 carbs grams per day), I almost lost my lunch, literally... I saw death in the numbers and then I remembered what Mark says about the big picture, and then the stress factor of it all hit me. I am doing more damage by stressing about my bad carb day than what the carbs are going to do. Herein lies a good half of my health battle. Dependency on numbers and fear of the what if's.

              I've lost 40 lbs since going primal, I've had no blood sugar issues, the endometriosis is receding, I've been off the diuretic for two months and I can see my legs again for the first time in years (and hubby is seeing them too), my energy level soars daily whether I eat or not, allergy attacks last for hours and not days, I breath deeply again and with no more sharp abdominal pain to go with it and the list goes on... the hiatal hernia is mechanical and can be fixed mechanically - doctors just put me on a drug to stop the acid which also stops proper digestion. I'm backing off the thyroid supplement a bit as an expirament, and had no adverse consequences to date and I'm using a natural supplement to keep the acid down (not gone) until I can get the belly where it belongs and oh, the endometriosis - I am feeling PMS for the first time in I don't know when and while some pain remains, it does not rule me anymore.

              I've said it before, and surely I'll say it again, I am experiencing life again and I thank God and Mark Sisson for it. I just want to ask those who are still in that doctor opinion and lab drug storm... how much of your dependence is assumed and how much is really necessary? Saying that how primal each of us lives is a personal choice is accurate enough, but by saying this, we are in effect, saying that it's a personal choice to ingest poison and remain stuck outside of homeostasis. Use drugs for emergencies and not for a way of life - I'm not completely there but I am striving for it, not to find the right kind of drug but to find the right kind of lifestyle.

              I apologize for my lengthy post, I really didn't intend to rant and I might not gain the friendship of many doctors as a result of this post, but I will post it anyway for those that want out of the madness - it can be done, freedom IS attainable.

              Thanks for listening,
              SW 260 lbs
              CW 194 lbs as of February 13, 2013
              GW 150 lbs
              PB start date: June 16th, 2012


              • Hi everyone, I'm new here and just found this post, I see its a bit old now, but thought I'd chime in.

                I had thyroid cancer 2 years ago, so I have no thyroid at all. I use synthetic thyroid meds, Oroxine (Australian). I do go up and down a lot with my TSH as I am supposed to keep my levels at 0.1-0.3. Every year thought I have to have my whole body scan which requires me to come off my meds and have radioactive iodine. So early this year I had to deal with a TSH over 150. This caused me to gain over 6kgs and I am still struggling to get back down to a normal weight. I've just begun the Primal diet to be a healthier person.