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  • Statins Save Lives!!!!

    According to this article, it is self-evidently true and widely accepted that lowering LDL-C with statins saves countless lives. It makes my head hurt listening to all of the experts take diametrically opposing positions and all of them have plenty of research to back-up their positions. I will be getting a new lipid panel soon (first one since late 2011 when I started my primal journey). I am afraid to see the results as I suspect my LDL-C has skyrocketed due to my HFVLC diet. Most of the time I tell myself: who cares, high LDL-C is not a reliable predictor of anything and statins do much more harm than good. However, there are times (like when I read this article) that I wonder if I am signing my own death warrant with my HFVLC diet. I eat the HFVLC diet to control my blood sugar which I am betting is my best path to reduce risk of heart attack and stroke.

    Do We Really Need Head-To-Head Comparison Trials With Statins To Improve Cardiac Health? - Forbes
    Last edited by Artbuc; 03-01-2013, 08:09 AM.

  • #2
    Have you read Griff's posts on Cholesterol here. Do. My numbers are high but the ratios are good. I'm not a bit worried.
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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    • #3
      First the article was written by a big pharma insider.

      Second, there was no discussion of total death rates. The two studies cited only considered CV death rates. I want to stay alive from all causes, not just some!

      Finally, these drug trials have exclusion criteria that don't match the general population. What has been the real world experience of these drugs?
      Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

      Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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      • #4
        I believe that avoiding refined seed oils, transfats and exsessive omega6, and replacing it with coconut oil, olive oil, wild fish, and pastured meat and eggs, protects against heart disease even better than statins do.

        Big pharma probably isn't too eager to do that head-to-head study though are they?
        "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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        • #5
          I'm allergic to all statins, really badly. They just tear up my intestins. I've been made to try them all. Some non-statin medicines even effect me badly.
          "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
            Have you read Griff's posts on Cholesterol here. Do. My numbers are high but the ratios are good. I'm not a bit worried.
            Yes, but his info seems to be quite dated.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by itchy166 View Post
              I believe that avoiding refined seed oils, transfats and exsessive omega6, and replacing it with coconut oil, olive oil, wild fish, and pastured meat and eggs, protects against heart disease even better than statins do.

              Big pharma probably isn't too eager to do that head-to-head study though are they?
              I hope you are right because that is exactly what I eat. Pastured eggs, grass fed/finished beef (including beef liverwurst) and bison, olive oil, Wild Planet skipjack tuna and sardines, Nutiva coconut oil, Bobs Red Mill unsweeted shredded coconut, Navitas nibs, 90% Lindt, Kerrygold cheeses and Greek yogurt make up at least 98% of my calories.

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              • #8
                I used to work for a doc who was a major figure in early cholesterol research and thus became seriously indoctrinated into the cholesterol causes heart disease way of thinking. When I see articles such as the one you cite, I too have my brief moment of second thoughts. It is hard to stand firm against their assurance that their way of thinking is right.

                However, when I followed their official advice I was fat and tired, and also had high trigs and low HDL as well as over the norm TC and LDL. I also had slowly elevating BP. Statins lowered the TC and LDL but also lowered the HDL into what they would classify as dangerous territory and raised my trigs. I was still fat and my BP was still going up. Enough, I said.

                Today, eating primal, I still have elevated TC and LDL -- but I also have an outrageously high HDL, basement level trigs, and an outstanding CR-P,. My last BP was 114/74, and I've lost 70 lbs. More than that, I listen to my body and my body says that I'm doing the right thing as I feel super well and am full of energy. The persons that write these reports only prove that they are well-indoctrinated in CW thinking and are unable to face facts or reason for themselves. There is much evidence that we are doing the best thing for our bodies. Don't listen to the well-trained little boys who merely regurgitate old info in order to scare you.
                Starting Weight: 197.5
                Current Weight: 123
                Far healthier!

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                • #9
                  Griff Needed

                  Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
                  Yes, but his info seems to be quite dated.
                  Why do you say that. It's up to date, I believe.
                  "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cryptocode View Post
                    Why do you say that. It's up to date, I believe.
                    Last edited Aug 2010.
                    Last edited by Artbuc; 03-02-2013, 03:16 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Artbuc, check the INTERHEART study link in my signature. This study showed that, besides smoking, the most powerful marker of CVD is the ApoB/ApoA1 ratio. Simplest way to think of this is the non-HDL particle count divided by the HDL particle count. Not commonly measured as CW physicians still believe the standard lipid panel is useful. Get your ApoB and ApoA1 measured. If the ratio is less than .9 then you're in the best quartile
                      Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                      Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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                      • #12
                        It seems to me that there is a difference between "I think this is true" and "I am absolutely convinced that it's true." Most of us probably struggle with what to believe, for a very long time.

                        Being fairly new to primal/paleo, I am reading a lot. (I know I need to keep reading it, or I'll lose my conviction. ) But I do see that there are huge problems with the conventional information, and that concerns me a ton, even when I don't know what to think--I can't get past the fact that a lot of conventional science (both nutritional and other types) are really BAD science. When I see an article that's actually well done, I am surprised, which is a bad place to start, and this makes me far more likely to accept an alternative viewpoint.

                        However, all that said, one big thing is sticking out to me right now: would I rather be sick and tired and miserable all the time and live an extra year or two, or be healthy and happy for many years and eventually die perhaps a year earlier? Do I want to feel, all through my 50s, 60s, and 70s, the way I feel right now? Or do I want to be healthier and more energetic, even if I die at 84 instead of 86? I know some old people who have been unhealthy for many years, and I have to say, I'd rather be like my grandfather, if I can help it, who had sudden pain and then died within about 45 minutes, than like my grandmother who lived 5 years in a nursing home. I know that to some extent, even with a good diet, it cannot be helped, and a person who is very healthy might just live longer before they start a long decline. But I think that the health or lack of health I have in my 50s is going to influence the health or lack i have in my 80s, and the things that contribute to being healthy now will have a positive effect later, as well. And if they don't, well, honestly, a heart-attack at an old age is not the worst way I can think of to die.

                        So having thought it all through, I'm going to put my bets on health, now, and work towards what makes me feel energetic, healthy, and well, today.

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                        • #13
                          Yup, I am of the same mind--not signing my death warrant but where can you get an objective opinion of statins from the medical community, especially some one local.

                          I have blood work coming back as the beginning of my re-commitment to paleo and a baseline. It will be the first time that I have had CR-P done and the VAP analysis of LDL.

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                          • #14
                            Statins Save Lives!!!!
                            Meat is bad for you!!!!
                            Eggs are bad for you!!!!
                            Eat more grains to live longer!!!!
                            I'm from the government and I want to help you!!!!

                            Any more lies that anyone can think of?
                            Randal
                            AKA: Texas Grok

                            Originally posted by texas.grok
                            Facebook is to intelligence what a black hole is to light
                            http://hardcoremind.com/

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                            • #15
                              Reminds me of favourite oxymorons:

                              Military intelligence
                              Civil service
                              American football
                              Medical science
                              Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                              Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                              Comment

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