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  • Simmering Resentments

    This is an aspect of the "ancestral health movement" that annoys me a little.

    I've just posted a really serious study about autism on this board and tried to think about how we got where we are. This, it seems to me, is THE most important issue facing contemporary society -- thjat, in short, people are being literally poisoned by the food supply.

    But meanwhile, back in the real world, the ancestral health movement, which ought to be the answer to this, is riven by jealousy, conflict, and ego-sparring.

    I've heard Jimmy Moore complain that paleo folks are trying to cut out the low-carb people; I've read hostile reviews of paleo books by the the WAPF crowd; I've heard Rob Wolf claim that the WAPF has never helped anyone and dismiss Paul Chek as "metephysical". (That's supposed to be an insult, but in truth it was just a book title in Artistotle - the book that comes before the book on physics.)

    Anyway, we've now hit bottom. I just downloaded Angelo Coppola's "Latest in Paleo" podcast and listened to hiim make a cowardly attack on Chris Kresser. Ostensibly he was talking about charging for content and I thought he was referring to Art de Vany, who always has. Then from other hints I twigged he meant Chris. Well, doubtless the "Healthy Baby Code" and all the rest of it only tells you the kind of thing you could find out for nothing from the WAPF website, but no-one is forced to buy this stuff.

    Mr. Coppola is now cleaned our of my iTunes. But the point is that why the movement spends its time bitching at each other agribusiness and big pharma are laughing all the way ti the bank.

  • #2
    this sort of thing was bound to happen at some point. groups of people seem to always focus on differences rather than similarities once the group is big enough. ancestral health was a small club trying to get noticed; now that it's a player on a much bigger scale, subgroups are going to form and bicker over who is the most right. this happens with everything: governments, religion, athletic teams, etc.
    in a way, it's sort of good news, because it means ancestral diets are gaining much wider acceptance and that might lead to more availability of quality foods...but the backstabbing still hurts.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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    • #3
      I think disagreement in the movement is healthy and can be expressed in constructive ways, but the infighting gets nasty and toxic. Any good movement will involve debate, and I think we can criticize ideas without criticizing people. I don't want paleo wars, but I also don't want to see us developing sacred cows that we cannot ever challenge or question.
      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

      Owly's Journal

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Owly View Post
        I think disagreement in the movement is healthy and can be expressed in constructive ways, but the infighting gets nasty and toxic. Any good movement will involve debate, and I think we can criticize ideas without criticizing people. I don't want paleo wars, but I also don't want to see us developing sacred cows that we cannot ever challenge or question.
        I agree as I am sure many will be highly critical of my Paleo Light © approach to food and exercise.
        Why use a sledge hammer to crack a nut when a steam roller is even more effective, and, is fun to drive.

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        • #5
          Well, I'm interested in paleo and WAPF, and I like to keep an eye on what the low-carb people are saying, too. I've also recently began to get interested in the Mediterranean Diet -- actually, there's a fascinating story on that in the New York Times: " The island where people forget to die".

          It's this business of blackguarding people you disagree with that really grates on me. And in that podcast I mentioned it's all slander by insinuation -- nudge, nudge, wink, wink. He's even alleging misuse of research papers. Now the Caveman Doctor did this with a vegan propagandist, but the Caveman Doctor's got balls. He did it all openly and fairly, quoted what the guy had said, explained what the guy had chosen not to say, again providing checkable references for that.

          If people would just cool it on the loose allegations, the implications of bad motives, the personal abuse and so on ...

          You never hear guys like Mark or Sean Croxton do that.

          I've seen people call both Nora Gedgaudas and Dr. Rosedale a "lunatic" on the grounds they don't eat much in the way of carbs. It seems a bit extreme to start hurling insults in behalf of a macronutrient!

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          • #6
            To return to better things -- here's that Times article. Well worth reading:

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/ma...pagewanted=all

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lewis View Post
              I've heard Jimmy Moore complain that paleo folks are trying to cut out the low-carb people; I've read hostile reviews of paleo books by the the WAPF crowd; I've heard Rob Wolf claim that the WAPF has never helped anyone and dismiss Paul Chek as "metephysical". (That's supposed to be an insult, but in truth it was just a book title in Artistotle - the book that comes before the book on physics.)

              Anyway, we've now hit bottom. I just downloaded Angelo Coppola's "Latest in Paleo" podcast and listened to hiim make a cowardly attack on Chris Kresser. Ostensibly he was talking about charging for content and I thought he was referring to Art de Vany, who always has.
              Am I supposed to give a rip about the differences that these people have between each other?

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              • #8
                The real problem is that it's just not that complicated and too many people are trying to monetise the idea on the web. I still kill some time here but have found I do better by just getting on with it. You really can overthink primal/paleo very easily.
                Wheat is the new tobacco. Spread the word.

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                • #9
                  This happens in just about everything, and it is sad that moving from SAD to Paleo or Primal or whole foods or raw foods doesn't affect the brain enough to keep people from doing it.

                  I agree with you, Lewis, that being poisoned by our food supply is the most important issue facing us. I also think it will take a long time for the majority of people to believe it. We've seen numerous posts here at MDA about PBers who have friends who tried Primal for awhile, then thought it was just too much of an effort. I'm sure those people thought PB was healthier than their SAD, but I doubt that they actually could conceive that SAD is in large part, down right poison.

                  Infighting is totally destructive. While I totally believe that one voice can change the world, I also believe in strength in numbers.
                  "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                  B*tch-lite

                  Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                    To return to better things -- here's that Times article. Well worth reading:

                    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/ma...pagewanted=all
                    That was very well worth reading, Thank you.

                    I think the point that I get, is that the label of what we are doing is not in the least bit important. How we live is what really matters. If we eat natural, healthful foods, gets enough sleep/rest, get enough activity & play, and have little stress in our lives, we will be healthier. Whatever method that gets that to us that works, is fine, as long as it is beneficial to our whole lives.

                    And, I agree, the poisoning of our food supply by agri-business is just flat-out wrong. I've been an organic activist for years.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IvyBlue View Post
                      The real problem is that it's just not that complicated and too many people are trying to monetise the idea on the web. I still kill some time here but have found I do better by just getting on with it. You really can overthink primal/paleo very easily.
                      +1. Too many people hawking too many products. Greed does ugly things to friends, colleagues and families.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by IvyBlue View Post
                        The real problem is that it's just not that complicated and too many people are trying to monetise the idea on the web. I still kill some time here but have found I do better by just getting on with it. You really can overthink primal/paleo very easily.
                        I agree.
                        Well said.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
                          +1. Too many people hawking too many products. Greed does ugly things to friends, colleagues and families.
                          +2. It's really, really simple, which means the only way anyone's going to make any money on it now is by trying to convince you they have a "spin" (which most of them don't). I've given up on new paleo books because there just ain't much more to be said. I like cookbooks, and I'll sometimes buy one, but most of them are also turning into regurgitation, too. Which is the way of most cookbook "trends", after a time.
                          Steph
                          My Primal Meanderings

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                          • #14
                            About Us - Ancestral Health Society
                            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                              To return to better things -- here's that Times article. Well worth reading:

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/ma...pagewanted=all
                              An enjoyable article about an enjoyable life that sounds wonderful. I really like the part about getting up late, napping, and staying up late. It sounds so relaxed. They didn't say what they ysed for light at night. I do think the community life is a big factor.
                              "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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