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Vitamin D3 Supplementation: Useless or even Harmful?

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  • #16
    BTW there are more than 5 senses.

    In one of Cordain's books he says that it is best to get vit D from being outdoors those living in Northern areas supplement 2000 international units in winter
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
    PS
    Don't forget to play!

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    • #17
      I use the Carlson D3 10k pills, and love them. Buy Carlson Vitamin D3 10000 IU, softgels & More | drugstore.com

      A year ago I had my vitamin D levels checked I was very low! (I believe it was 15-18? Also, this was after having lived for 15 months in the Tropics but not spending very much time outdoors) anyway, after a year of consistently taking 10k a day (with a couple months off when I had to restock, and then days off when I forgot to take it) I'm finally up to 73! Happy day.

      I know that low Vitamin D has a huge effect on the body's ability to fight disease and other issues, and so yes, I would say that Vit D supplementation is worth is. Especially for those of us who do not spend time in the sun daily.

      I recommend watching Dr. Mercola's 7-8 part youtube series (it's 7 parts, but then he added a supplemental post) about Vitamin D. Very much worth the watch. Not all affects are immediate. And it sometimes takes us a long time to heal.


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      • #18
        Started supplementing a couple of years ago due to major depression during winter. Lab test showed my level in the teens. I mainly supplement from October through March. It's made all the difference for me.

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        • #19
          I suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder and had my low D levels confirmed with blood tests. 6+ months of high supplementation of D3 in liquid form (10,000IU daily) brought me up to a normal level (though low for summertime). It really depends on the state of your gut, I believe. All micronutrients need to be working in concert for proper absorption. I felt a change within a couple weeks of high supplementation last Winter, even though my levels were still low.

          If you don't feel a difference, it's possible you don't need it, but you could try a lower maintenance dose to make sure you're getting enough if you don't get outside often, until you can get tested. Perhaps foolish, but I just use common sense with stuff like this, and don't really care about the tests and medical issues and plethora of articles there are out there debating the issue.
          Depression Lies

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DavidBrennan View Post
            Thanks for the research. I will accept this (but be open to any counter evidence that might come along). Just to be clear, you're saying that the less ideal "E" form of Vitamin D is not as good nor as common as the Z form....but it's also not harmful to the body, is it? If you're one of the unlucky few who gets it, are there any bad aspects of it?

            (And I'll definitely be adding the word, "stereoisomers" to my vocabulary. I can't wait to find a conversation I can inject that into to show that I'm smart!)
            I did a little more digging and found out that the Z isomer degrades to the E isomer upon exposure to sunlight (it does this in our skin). I don't have access to the journals that talk about this, so I'm not sure what role the E isomer plays in our bodies, but my takeaway would be to make sure you keep your supplements away from direct sunlight.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by faithy22 View Post
              I did a little more digging and found out that the Z isomer degrades to the E isomer upon exposure to sunlight (it does this in our skin). I don't have access to the journals that talk about this, so I'm not sure what role the E isomer plays in our bodies, but my takeaway would be to make sure you keep your supplements away from direct sunlight.
              That's funny, because as I noted a few posts back, my (very light) research showed that the way they synthesize Vitamin D3 in the first place is by exposing some sheep oil to UV light, thus converting it into D3. So it would stand to reason that, if it's already been exposed to UV light, whatever would happen to it already has happened. So this is very strange, to me.

              Of course, I don't think many of us are in the habit of setting our vitamins and supplements out in the sunlight, so that instruction is not a problem (again, ignoring the oddity of UV light now harming it at all).

              Thank you for your research. I personally hope that you will pursue it and, if you're at all inclined, maybe you can even do a full research project which could be hugely beneficial to many of us in the paleo/Primal community who are advised to take Vitamin D3 supplements. Maybe there's some major breakthrough waiting to be unearthed. It sounds well like there might be.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                I suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder and had my low D levels confirmed with blood tests. 6+ months of high supplementation of D3 in liquid form (10,000IU daily) brought me up to a normal level (though low for summertime). It really depends on the state of your gut, I believe. All micronutrients need to be working in concert for proper absorption. I felt a change within a couple weeks of high supplementation last Winter, even though my levels were still low.

                If you don't feel a difference, it's possible you don't need it, but you could try a lower maintenance dose to make sure you're getting enough if you don't get outside often, until you can get tested. Perhaps foolish, but I just use common sense with stuff like this, and don't really care about the tests and medical issues and plethora of articles there are out there debating the issue.
                Thanks to you and others for your personal anecdotes and your pointers.

                I think we can all agree that Vitamin D3 is widely recommended across the paleo/Primal community (Robb Wolf said it's the single supplement he'd advise people to take if they could take just one, in fact). So, given this degree of praise for it, I think that there can't be enough research on the matter.

                For now, I personally plan to continue taking my 2,000+ IUs per day (especially now in the fall and winter months), but I'm definitely keeping my eyes peeled for further research.

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                • #23
                  sigh, if you cannot afford the test, you probably cannot afford to affect change with your number.

                  go look it up I have already forgotten the journals name, however....

                  Vitamin D is a fat soluble hormone with mediates both melatonin and melanin

                  It's regulation is one of the very few design flaws inherent in eukaryotic mammalian life. How so. once your body reduces is storage amount to under 2 million IU's all the pathways that allow for the synthesis via sunlight shutdown... WTF YUP.... Sodium is another bass ackwards system when you drop below a certian level you die so the body retains it no mater the cost... allowing for edema and gout.... oy vey.

                  In a vacuum.... signs of good vitamin D levels are rock hard erections... ( do your homework and check the hormone pathways )

                  Darker skin ( little known, sunlight doesnt tan you ,Vitamin D synthesis via sunlight provokes the creation of more melanocytes which then tan you. the details are everything)

                  Better sleep.

                  chances are you can do what many people i have talked to have done... test; if under 70 eat 2 million within a week; take 10K daily for 6 weeks then test again.... gets most of them to 100 every time.

                  Adult males 100-125 is optimal ( god i hate that word now)
                  Adult females 125 - 150 is optimal.'

                  your doctor said 80 didnt she.... well that is what the FDA told her and that is what Big Pharma told them..... and that means that statin sales on are on the rise... oh wait.... the new guidline is 70 isnt it... and they think i am not listening to what they say..
                  Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                  Predator not Prey
                  Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                  CW 315 | SW 506
                  Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                  Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                  • #24
                    I was actually told that a level of 53 (what I tested at this summer) was within the new guidelines. WTF?!
                    Depression Lies

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                    • #25
                      Sorry, but Mercola jumped the shark years ago, he's got no credibility in my book any longer.

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                      • #26
                        quelsen, from where did you get those recommendations?
                        Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                        Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by peril View Post
                          quelsen, from where did you get those recommendations?
                          between the lines my man, between the lines.

                          many women who use Vitamin D to treat FM and CFS keep their D between 150 and 225.

                          Vitamin D is stored in the Brain, Bone, Liver, and Skin... do you really think it is just sitting there inert?

                          ALL blood work reference ranges are the aggregation of the current population providing samples..... When was the last time you provided blood for any medical research... oh you didnt you say. well then where did they get the information...

                          people who are giving blood for testing... AKA sick people

                          the nation as a whole is more ill today than 20 years ago. reference ranges drop as time moves forward.

                          the professional i used for hormone replacement last year left he had to sell me on this ( i was already aware) when he tried to explain why he used reference ranges from 50 years ago rather than current ranges.

                          many of us live in America... we live in buildings and never see the sun. We live in a very stress laden society ( ignoring the news and the actual people involved) technology leaches certain chemicals out of our bodies faster than most of us are replacing them.

                          I never fear OD on water soluble vitamins. I am careful with Fat soluble vitamins, however I really dont care about any micro or macro nutrient/mineral that I burn thru. Vitamin D is classed as a Vitamin and in reality it is a hormone that mediates so many biologic functions that erring on the side of excess, given the climate, is the better option for me... I know by lab references and by my own felt sense where my D needs to be and what i have to do to keep it there.

                          so i take 20,000 - 50,000 iu daily ( depending on stress events). i leach it too fast for 5000 or 10000 to be of any use.
                          Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                          Predator not Prey
                          Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                          CW 315 | SW 506
                          Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                          Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                          • #28
                            Thanks for all the thoughtful info, Quelsen!

                            That's an interesting thought that you offered that recommended levels of hormones are lower than the government RDAs because they're referencing sick people as their norms. Talk about a selection bias! If that is indeed true, than that level of stupidity is....well, that can't be done via stupidity, they have to be lowballing the RDAs purposely.

                            What is the difference between fat- and water-soluble vitamins as it relates to our consuming them? I assume that most of us get our good saturated fats, and I also doubt many of us are dehydrating, so how would you advise us to act on the info that Vitamin D3 is fat-soluble?

                            Thanks again.

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                            • #29
                              I remember when Vitamin E was all the rage. The miracle pill that cured everything, until they found out quite the opposite.

                              We all look for the magic bullet, but there isn't one. I am certain over the next 10-15 years, there will be enough data to show that megadoses of Vitamin D are not beneficial, and probably end up being harmful. Trust me, I hope not, but it seems to be how things go.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
                                I remember when Vitamin E was all the rage. The miracle pill that cured everything, until they found out quite the opposite.

                                We all look for the magic bullet, but there isn't one. I am certain over the next 10-15 years, there will be enough data to show that megadoses of Vitamin D are not beneficial, and probably end up being harmful. Trust me, I hope not, but it seems to be how things go.
                                Just because some other people have been wrong in the past about some other matter in no way means that some person now is wrong about a completely different matter. That's kind of like saying, "Yeah, 'Huck Finn' was all the rage a few years ago. But now who reads it?!? So all reading is a fad."

                                But, still, I agree that there are indeed many fads and many people have an belief in a single keystone which will maintain their health, whereas Primal living is really all about a broad spectrum of diet, exercise, and lifestyle concepts. What's more, it's very adaptive and open to new info (such as the major increase in tolerance for good carbs over the past year or so).

                                Given the quality of people who advice D3 supplementation as well as the vigor with which they advise it (like I said, Robb Wolf said it's the single most important supplement he advises people to take), I highly doubt that it's merely a fad. Also, considering how good I feel after a day in the sun, ya know, that n=1 experiment seals the deal about its importance for me.

                                But now there's the matter of whether the synthesized forms are as good as sunlight, whether the "E" or "Z" form is superior, and which side the synthesized D3 offers.

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