Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Research that vegan diet is best and our ancestors were not big meat eaters

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Perhaps this will help you understand the nuance of my criticism of how you've used inane:

    Online Etymology Dictionary

    Or perhaps not. Perhaps this is a difference in usage between US and UK English; fine. I've heard of things being described as inane, but never skills. Their inane chatter forced me to change the channel but never His inane ability to find the receiver was the reason the quarterback was benched. The latter usage is utterly foreign to me. If then it's merely differences and usage and auto-correct, fine. It just was a bad introduction to your thread.

    Comment


    • #77
      Wasn't it only about two months ago there was a very similar thread posted about the medical wonders of a vegan diet? The person posting then was much the same as eenu here. The guy/person had never posted anything before, claimed to have been following a paleo-type diet, and then claimed to have come across new info about the benefits of a vegan diet.
      Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Scott F View Post
        Wasn't it only about two months ago there was a very similar thread posted about the medical wonders of a vegan diet? The person posting then was much the same as eenu here. The guy/person had never posted anything before, claimed to have been following a paleo-type diet, and then claimed to have come across new info about the benefits of a vegan diet.
        Yeah, I'm having that same deja voodoo.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by tfarny View Post
          You said:

          I call it 'Mark's Primal' diet however as there is enough evidence from world experts to suggest that meat was not a large component of 'groks' diet. But then that doesn't go on to mean that meat isn't good for you, since 'groks' lack of meat can be down to environmental conditions, ie lack of animals to hunt or lack of success in hunting it - compared to today where you pick it off a shelf.

          There is actually very, very little evidence in the archaeological record about what Grok really ate. They're not even sure if the first "Grok" (our human ancestor, as opposed to Neanderthals, Flores man, Lucy who may not be our ancestor, etc) lived in Africa, at this point. There is so little evidence that every time they discover a new bone they invent 4 new theories around it. In general, we know that omnivorous animals tend to favor meat when it's available over plants (Grizzly bear salmon fishing, etc.) that they hunt when they can, and scavenge when they can. Finally, we ARE much better designed for meat consumption than any of our great ape cousins in many ways, which suggests that we have a fairly significant meat eating past. Whether that means 10% of calories from meat or 90% is a dumb question. Almost certainly we sometimes had 20 and sometimes 80, and can do pretty well at either extreme. None of this even addresses the question of what is "optimal" for you though.
          I think that to try and associate ourselves most comparatively with our oldest relatives and their diet is simply a mistake, and I've always wondered why people attempt to apply it. We are simply not our oldest 'relatives' at all... not homo habilis, not Homo erectus, not little Lucy, and not sturdy Neanderthals, etc. We are Homo sapiens and there is much more information about the dietary habits of hunter gatherer Homo sapiens, all of which include meat in the diet, as well as what little is known of the dietary habits of fossilized fire pits/hearths = meat consumption.

          Originally posted by eenu View Post
          I follow the PB, I have noticed some health improvements, I have also noticed new issues. I lived for a good number of years before I even found this site following 95% of what is contained in the PB. So there is no point trying to burn me at the stake for raising questions about something I have been practicing for almost a decade and a site I have been following for over a year. I believe the diet is good but I still believe it has short comings, mainly in terms of quantities of animal products to consume on time scaled basis as well as the effects of mycotoxins which I have been experimenting with for some months now and feel the bullet proof exec may actually have a point!

          Ahh, mycotoxins.
          Just curious... if you are concerned where will you be getting your protein if you decide to eschew meats?
          Mycotoxins are actually rampant in stored legumes and grain and anyone consuming grain/soy products will have an exposure many times that of a person who does not, particularly since the consumption of grains/legumes tends to be as a mych larger portion of the diet.


          You have 3 main characters in the paleo arena, they are all making $$ from the likes of you and me. So why don't they take some of these $$ and invest them in some hard medical research? It would not be hard for the likes of Mark Sisson to do regular blood testing, ultrasounds and function tests to prove his claims as well as demonstrating the effects of certain things he is eating either in excess or being deficient on himself. The BPE does plenty of this, however, it is more in the area of mycotoxins and I would be interested to see data for the diet as a whole. Just because I feel good does not mean I am healthy, we have a TV show here that is based on nutrition (the name escapes me). They invited a guy into this food hospital to look at his diet, he was a fruitest. All he ate was fruit, like insane amounts. He said he felt amazing, the best he has ever felt. His medical tests said different.
          Money?
          I initially paid a whopping $2.99 for The Primal Blue Print as an e-book on sale almost 2years ago...
          (I could have gotten all of what I needed to know free by reading the FAQ/Start Here and such on this site.)
          Everything you need to know from the BPE, free by reading his site.
          Everything I wanted to know about Cordain's Paleo, free by reading the site.
          There are other great places to get FREE information too... better than BPE!

          Also, I don't consider BPE a "main character"... at all... I honestly consider him a sideshow act at best.

          I'm sure they are making money off advertisements due to traffic, and people who are the crash diet types who buy two books right now today at full price, and a shelf full of supplements and whey powders too though... *shrug*
          This people also pay money to the hacks on Dr. Oz selling amazing "insert product of the week here" at least once a month though.

          One place I will be spending some money...
          I will be purchasing Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gedguadas here in the next few days.
          I'm doing this because I have specific medical issues which she has covered in some lectures, and since it directly concerns my health I'm interested in more/deeper information.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by eenu View Post
            I have been doing research hence the whole thread! You completely miss the point regarding the tests and why they should be done and why random peoples random results in a forum is not conclusive evidence compared to published and peer reviewed research. Not even going to bother trying to explain, well done, your happy on the diet - bye bye!
            No, you are not doing the research. You are regurgitating the research other people have done and then expecting people like Mark Sisson and Robb Wolf to bankroll something you think is important. Why don't you do that yourself instead of expecting other people to do it for you? Why don't you provide a valuable service to millions of people and use that money to find the answers?

            I respect the successful results of people in my life (and on the internet) more than I respect a study. Especially when the results of those studies contradict everything I and many others experience. It makes no sense! It's like studies coming out saying you should press the brake to accelerate on a car--it does not withstand reality. That is, the evidence in front of my eyes is more important than some grain and soy-funded university professor's findings.

            Realize that many people on this forum think this scientism obsession is foolish in comparison to what actually works.
            "There is a cruelty in life which we must accept with stoicism as the inevitable." -Mizora

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by zoltankemeny View Post
              No, you are not doing the research. You are regurgitating the research other people have done and then expecting people like Mark Sisson and Robb Wolf to bankroll something you think is important. Why don't you do that yourself instead of expecting other people to do it for you? Why don't you provide a valuable service to millions of people and use that money to find the answers?

              I respect the successful results of people in my life (and on the internet) more than I respect a study. Especially when the results of those studies contradict everything I and many others experience. It makes no sense! It's like studies coming out saying you should press the brake to accelerate on a car--it does not withstand reality. That is, the evidence in front of my eyes is more important than some grain and soy-funded university professor's findings.

              Realize that many people on this forum think this scientism obsession is foolish in comparison to what actually works.
              And lets not forget the the university professors who have tried to publish papers that contained information that didn't meet approval of the "funding"... and how their careers ended.
              Yes, it has indeed happened.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

              Comment


              • #82
                His Omega 3 claim is even more out of this world, he claims you cannot get Omega 3 on a plant based diet.... really!? A basic web search returns:

                "Common sources of n–3 fatty acids include fish oils, algal oil, squid oil, and some plant oils such as echium oil and flaxseed oil."
                I haven't watched the video, so I don't know about the claims of being unable to get omega-3 fatty acids from plants. But I thought that DHA/EPA (animal sources) were the active version of these FAs in terms of reducing inflammation, not ALA (plant sources). ALA can be converted to DHA or EPA, but only at a very low rate. So could his statement have been shorthand for this?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Look at around 30 mins. His claims are just out of this world. Apparently, deficiencies YOU WILL develop as a vegan:

                  Zinc, Iron, Omega-3, Iodine, B6 from eating vegan.... really!?

                  Any simple search will show that for any of these vitamins/minerals there are many plant/vegetation types in the top 10 providers for each nutrient. These include:

                  Toasted Wheat Germ, Pumpkin and squash seeds, watermelon seeds, chocolate, peanuts, spinach, collards, prunes, raisins, Beans, lentils, chick peas, soybeans, kelp, arame, hiziki, kombu, wakame, cranberries, navy beans, strawberries, salt, potatoes, bread, oatmeal, wheat germ, rice, soya beans, peanuts.
                  What is the bio-availability of the mentioned nutrients from these sources? I was curious, and found what reads like a pro-vegetarian review article . I say "pro-vegetarian because the conclusion of the article is that
                  vegetarians typically have lower body mass index, serum total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and blood pressure; reduced rates of death from ischemic heart disease; and decreased incidence of hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and certain cancers than do nonvegetarians
                  Vitamin D
                  Low vitamin D intakes,5 low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels,6 and reduced bone mass7 have been reported in some vegan groups who did not take vitamin D supplements or ingest fortified foods such as cow’s milk; yogurt; some brands of soymilk, rice milk, and orange juice; breakfast cereals; and margarines.[...]Intake of vitamin D by vegans tends to be substantially below that of lacto-ovo-vegetarians and nonvegetarians (see Table 1).
                  The bold/underline is mine to indicate that some of these sources might not naturally be enriched in this vitamin.

                  Vitamin B12
                  Because of inadequate consumption, the vitamin B12 status of some vegetarians is less than adequate6,9 Although dairy and eggs are good sources of vitamin B12 for the lacto-ovo-vegetarian, vegans must obtain their vitamin B12 either from a regular use of vitamin B12-fortified foods,
                  ω-3 (n-3) Fatty Acids
                  Compared with nonvegetarians, vegetarians (and particularly vegans) tend to have lower blood levels of the long-chain ω-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).10[..].For the vegan, certain microalgae are a good source of DHA, and the oil from brown algae (kelp) is a source of EPA. Rich sources of α-linolenic acid (ALA), the precursor of EPA and DHA, include flaxseed, walnuts, canola oil, chia seed, and soy. However, the bioconversion of ALA to EPA is generally less than 10% in humans, whereas the conversion of ALA to DHA is substantially less.11
                  Calcium
                  Calcium intakes of lacto-vegetarians are similar to, or may be higher than, those of nonvegetarians, whereas intakes of vegans tend to be lower than both groups and may fall below recommended intakes6 (see also Table 1).[...]Calcium absorption is considerably reduced by oxalates (spinach, Swiss chard) and phytates (nuts, whole grains).
                  Iron
                  Vegetarians often have an iron intake that is similar to or slightly better than that of nonvegetarians (see Table 1), so the issue of iron adequacy is really one of iron bioavailability. Incidence of iron-deficiency anemia is common among vegetarians and nonvegetarians alike.6 [...]Soaking and sprouting beans and grains as well as leavening of bread can diminish phytate levels and enhance iron absorption.
                  Zinc
                  Although overt zinc deficiency has not been seen in Western vegetarians, their zinc intakes may be marginal or fall below recommendations (see Table 1). In addition, zinc bioavailability from vegetarian diets is lower than from nonvegetarian diets, mainly due to their higher phytic acid content.18 With vegetarians consuming diets rich in unrefined grains, nuts, and legumes, their zinc requirements may exceed the RDA.
                  So the speaker may have mixed up B-6 and B-12, but he seems spot on in terms of the nutritional availability of the other micronutrients that were mentioned.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by eenu View Post
                    EDIT: sorry maybe that was harsh so let me explain. If you have an inane ability to read I am criticising your reading ability in a negative way. I am saying you have an inability to read a.k.a your reading is not substantial which therefore means it is insubstantial another word for which is inane!
                    "...I am saying.... a.k.a... which therefore means... another word for... which is... "

                    Maybe you should just say what you mean the first time around. And use fewer words. Small ones too. We bore easily if there is no bacon as a reward.

                    Why are you here? Refresh my memory.
                    Sandra
                    *My obligatory intro

                    There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

                    DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.

                      Dear eenu,
                      You're not really going to get wild, emotional responses here. If that's what you want (and what troll doesn't?), the real fun is in messing with vegans who do it for "ethical reasons". Hopefully you've also found your way onto some of those forums and are posting videos and articles about the astonishing number of cute, fuzzy bunnies with wiggly noses that die in wheat threshers every growing season. If you'd like to vegan troll this forum again I highly advise setting up another account, spending a few months randomly posting "Grok on!" responses and "My SAD coworkers/family eat garbage every day, how can I make them see the light?" threads, then drop the V-bomb. It'll be much more convincing than what you've done here.
                      Lots of love,
                      Interzone
                      32-y.o., 5'7", 125lbs.
                      Looking to improve my way of eating and mange a lean PCOS diagnosis without medication.
                      Proud 80/20 primal mama of twins born March 2012 and surprise #3 due August 2013!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by interzone View Post
                        I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.
                        I had hopes that they were something other than a troll.

                        But it's obvious from their posts here that that's all they are doing.

                        Ah well. Another thread, another ignore function used.
                        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                        Griff's cholesterol primer
                        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                        bloodorchid is always right

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by interzone View Post
                          I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.

                          Dear eenu,
                          You're not really going to get wild, emotional responses here. If that's what you want (and what troll doesn't?), the real fun is in messing with vegans who do it for "ethical reasons". Hopefully you've also found your way onto some of those forums and are posting videos and articles about the astonishing number of cute, fuzzy bunnies with wiggly noses that die in wheat threshers every growing season. If you'd like to vegan troll this forum again I highly advise setting up another account, spending a few months randomly posting "Grok on!" responses and "My SAD coworkers/family eat garbage every day, how can I make them see the light?" threads, then drop the V-bomb. It'll be much more convincing than what you've done here.
                          Lots of love,
                          Interzone
                          It's true...

                          At least all the cute fuzzy bunnies that die for me are completely intentional and go onto my plate instead of being wasted, left to rot in some field.

                          Meat may be murder but, Wheat(grains) is mass murder.
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                            It's true...

                            At least all the cute fuzzy bunnies that die for me are completely intentional and go onto my plate instead of being wasted, left to rot in some field.

                            Meat may be murder but, Wheat(grains) is mass murder.
                            +1 but I prefer to think as meat as culling the herd.
                            Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                            PS
                            Don't forget to play!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Hi Eenu...I posted this before and didn't get a response. Very well researched article and pertinent to the discussion.

                              http://www.gregdavis.ca/share/paleo-...yd%20Eaton.pdf

                              Also this video is outstanding - The Vegetarian Myth - YouTube
                              Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                              https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Don't. *head/desk*
                                Feed. *head/desk*
                                The. *head/desk*
                                Trolls. *head/desk*

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X