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Ronald Krauss on Red Meat & Dairy Sat'd Fat

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  • Ronald Krauss on Red Meat & Dairy Sat'd Fat

    Just came across this over on meandmydiabetes.com

    Search Results Ronald krauss | Me and My Diabetes

    Nothing proved, of course, but potential interesting link between red meat, dairy saturated fat and CVD.

  • #2
    I'd like to see if actual fatty beef as opposed to beef and cheese would have the same effect. Also, if dairy + meat = bad then the jews actually got their diet right.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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    • #3
      Oh and this could also be the quality of the diet playing a hand as well. There's a huge difference between Balderson's 5 year old cheddar and the grocery store stuff.
      In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
        Oh and this could also be the quality of the diet playing a hand as well. There's a huge difference between Balderson's 5 year old cheddar and the grocery store stuff.
        Interesting point. I was buying the Tillamook cheese, no BGH in it...I avoid anything Kraft or processed.

        I haven't found much free-range or hormone-free red meat. I have something against eating a pig that was confined its whole life in a stall. I have found hormone-free ground beef, but I am not a big fan of "ground" anything. Free-range, organic chicken is easier to find. I have found Bison too, but only "ground".

        I only buy cage-free, no hormone eggs. Eggs are a great source of protein. A lot of "nutrition experts" shudder at eggs and push toast or refined box cereals like Special K!!

        I think meat is good for us, but I think unless one buys range or growth hormone free meat and dairy, one is getting a lot of chemicals and additives that are horrid.

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        • #5
          The takeaway may simply be to not eat beef three meals a day
          Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

          Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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          • #6
            Thanks, interesting. I'm starting to believe every nutrition question in regards to illness and health can be answered with an "it depends".

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            • #7
              Originally posted by peril View Post
              The takeaway may simply be to not eat beef three meals a day
              Yeah, just IF it and eat a whole roast.
              In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by peril View Post
                The takeaway may simply be to not eat beef three meals a day
                I'd say that's a sensible response.

                Gregory: "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
                Holmes: "To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
                Gregory: "The dog did nothing in the night-time."
                Holmes: "That was the curious incident."
                The interesting question might be what is likely not to be in that diet -- or not present at a high enough level?

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                • #9
                  In the interview they talk about studies and such but I have to wonder, with all the money thrown at such things, why is there not a much larger set of studies?

                  Why is it, even today after all the previous studies and "We can't be sure, more research is needed" results, that we don't just have a massive program of such studies to define the answer one way or another?

                  Right now it's just a hodge-podge of industry-funded research with more holes than a fishing net, research that raises more questions than it answers.

                  I'm sick of hearing how eggs will kill ya dead, then they're healthy, then they're only healthy if they're free-range, then it doesn't matter as long as they have extra omega 3, then how the O3 from such eggs can't be used, then a study saying it can, then another study saying it can't, then a study saying it can but only if free-range, then a study saying extra O3 doesn't work with free-range but does work with factory chickens, then another study saying eggs will kill ya dead anyway, then a study saying eggs are THE secret to a long life and sex into your 90's - but only organic ones with added sea algae from a little island off the coast of Italy, and only if you leave them under your sink next to a wet flannel for 2 weeks (you have to add some apple cider vinegar to the flannel or it could kill ya dead!) etc etc etc.

                  Just sick of it all.

                  So what do I do? I come to a site that says 'Just eat meat and veggies, some fruits, nuts, berries, natural foods."

                  Cool.

                  Then what do I see?

                  An article on how eating meat..? Oh that's OK but eat it with saturated fat? It'll kill ya dead!

                  Oh *&% off!




                  AC

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AlanC View Post
                    In the interview they talk about studies and such but I have to wonder, with all the money thrown at such things, why is there not a much larger set of studies?

                    Why is it, even today after all the previous studies and "We can't be sure, more research is needed" results, that we don't just have a massive program of such studies to define the answer one way or another?

                    Right now it's just a hodge-podge of industry-funded research with more holes than a fishing net, research that raises more questions than it answers.

                    I'm sick of hearing how eggs will kill ya dead, then they're healthy, then they're only healthy if they're free-range, then it doesn't matter as long as they have extra omega 3, then how the O3 from such eggs can't be used, then a study saying it can, then another study saying it can't, then a study saying it can but only if free-range, then a study saying extra O3 doesn't work with free-range but does work with factory chickens, then another study saying eggs will kill ya dead anyway, then a study saying eggs are THE secret to a long life and sex into your 90's - but only organic ones with added sea algae from a little island off the coast of Italy, and only if you leave them under your sink next to a wet flannel for 2 weeks (you have to add some apple cider vinegar to the flannel or it could kill ya dead!) etc etc etc.

                    Just sick of it all.

                    So what do I do? I come to a site that says 'Just eat meat and veggies, some fruits, nuts, berries, natural foods."

                    Cool.

                    Then what do I see?

                    An article on how eating meat..? Oh that's OK but eat it with saturated fat? It'll kill ya dead!

                    Oh *&% off!




                    AC
                    You captured my reaction exactly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      However, to quote myself:

                      The interesting question might be what is likely not to be in that diet -- or not present at a high enough level?
                      So they get plenty of beef three times a day, and that's coming courtesy of the meat industry, because they don't foresee a problem with that. Tough luck, guys.

                      But what if the intake of omega 3s, specifically DHA, is grossly inadequate on such a diet?

                      Recent anthropological thinking is that hominids came to be human in shoreline environments. Fish and shellfish was plentiful and easy to catch, and you could also have picked up turtles, eggs, marsh plants and so forth. You could have picked up some land animals, too, but much of your food could have come from the water, and that would have been high in DHA (and some other important nutrients).

                      See Michael Crawford; see Stephen Cunnane; see Leigh Broadhurst; and others ...

                      Survival of the Fattest: The Key to Human Brain Evolution: Stephen C. Cunnane: 9789812561916: Amazon.com: Books

                      Dr Leigh Broadhurst -- Seafood -- We Really Did Evolve to Eat It: Part 1 - YouTube

                      The paleo movement in general has been slow to catch on to this, but Professor Cordain has actually contributed to a paper that takes shoreline environments into account. Here it is:

                      Estimated macronutrient and fatty acid intakes fro... [Br J Nutr. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

                      People have continued to exploit water-resources, and reap the benefits of that, throughout history. And people in inland areas have suffered from the lack of seafood in the diet. Low levels of iodine among inland populations is, according to the World Health Organization, still the commonest cause of brain damage worldwide. Goitre was common in inland areas of Western Europe and the U.S. until governments began to mandate the iodination of salt (in the 1920s, IIRC). That ought to tell us something.

                      You might do OK -- perhaps not optimally, but pretty much OK -- on mainly land-based resources, providing the ruminant animals you were living off were grazing on rich grassland and you ate their brains.

                      Does anyone suppose the people in the study were doing that? Eating brains, I mean. Is there any indication that the meat industry sponsors had been kind enough to supply grass-fed meat free? Has anyone stopped to ask whether the levels of omega 3s in the control diet were higher than that in the high-beef diet?

                      But maybe that's relevant.

                      France is the only country where recommendations specifically for DHA are provided by health bodies at 120 mg for men and 100 mg for women per day. A recent survey of 4884 French men and women found that on average this target was far exceeded by estimated intakes of 273 mg/day for men and 226 mg/day for women [37]. In addition, the total long chain omega 3 fatty acids (EPA + DHA) intakes in France are in line with the recommended nutraceutical doses for the prevention of heart disease, at an estimated 497 mg/day for men and 400 mg/day in women. The French estimates for preformed DHA (250 mg/day), predominately from seafood, are much higher than estimates from other Western countries, such as 70 mg/day in the US, 90 mg/day in Australia, and 170 mg/day in Germany. These observations may in part contribute towards the “French Paradox”, the lower incidence of heart disease despite the diet rich in saturated fatty acids.
                      Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA): An Ancient Nutrient for the Modern Human Brain - Europe PMC Article - Europe PubMed Central

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                      • #12
                        Jack Kruse also is onto seafood in his epi-paleo diet.
                        F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by peril View Post
                          The takeaway may simply be to not eat beef three meals a day
                          I have my main meal at night, 5/6 PM and a light meal around 1PM. I often eat only the main meal without the light meal. I rotate beef, chicken and fish at the main meal and maybe we have an egg based meal instead of meat . So, even though I love beef, I don't eat it every day.
                          Last edited by Moochy; 11-22-2012, 12:39 AM.
                          Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
                          READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

                          Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food.” Anthony Bourdain

                          and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by peril View Post
                            The takeaway may simply be to not eat beef three meals a day
                            While this may be true, I believe it is more accurate to say that you shouldn't eat beef combined with dairy 3 times a day. And an even more important take away from this article is that overall carbohydrate intake should be low, because in every study, that was the primary stimulus for decrease in CVD risk factors.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
                              Oh and this could also be the quality of the diet playing a hand as well. There's a huge difference between Balderson's 5 year old cheddar and the grocery store stuff.
                              Balderson's 5 year old cheddar is the BEST! I need to get more from CostCo...
                              Out of context quote for the day:

                              Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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