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  • "Eating for Health, Not Weight "

    Ok, I am a sucker for a good title. I thought this article in the NY Times, "Eating for Health, Not Weight " sounded promising so I started reading it before looking at the authors name (Dean Ornish).
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/op...me&ref=general

    Geez, I guess I don't read the Times enough lately. I was certainly expecting something different. This article just slams nutrient dense foods like we eat. They particularly slam the Atkins diet plan.
    Maybe I just expect too much but I had thought people were finally coming around. There have been some wonderful articles in the NY Times supporting primal eating the last few years. That is where I first heard about Gary Taubes which lead me to MDA.

    Anyone else read this article?

  • #2
    I read it. still stuck on low fat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. people that eat that diet are literally consciously killing themselves. its sad
    Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
    Before and after pics
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
    Primal Sucess Story
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
    Primal Journal
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah, I am not sure where those studies come from or how they are being interpreted but my CRP went down along with improvements in all my blood work. How can that be if I am eating all these foods that should be killing me? Hmmmmm

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you are being a little harsh here.

        Here's the good points I think that the article makes:
        1. Processed foods are bad for you
        2. There are good carbs and bad carbs, good fats and bad fats (of course, they do get the good and bad fats transposed...)
        3. Fruit and vegetables and fish are good for you
        4. Many chronic diseases can be cured by a healthy lifestyle
        5. High protein diets increase CRP and are stressful on the body long term

        Here's the bad points that the article makes:
        1. red meat and saturated fat is bad for you (prevailing conventional wisdom)
        2. Whole grains, legumes and soy is good for you (whole grains and legumes seem to be neutral, and even soy has a champion on here)
        3. Conflates low-carb diet with high-protein diet. Whereas Low Carb needs to be High Fat (it's actually increased protein, not increased fat that is stresseful to the body and increases CRP)
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

        Comment


        • #5
          all carbs cause glycation, or a lot of them at least
          Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
          Before and after pics
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
          Primal Sucess Story
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
          Primal Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BennettC View Post
            all carbs cause glycation, or a lot of them at least
            This is an oversimplification that is misleading.

            There are several steps involved in producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products). The first two are the Schiff base and Amadori product. The processes which produce both are REVERSIBLE. It's only when you continually ingest excessive carbohydrates over time that you form AGEs.

            Carbohydrates are not evil. You do not need to eat a zero carb diet to be healthy.

            Good grief. I feel like choco.
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

            Griff's cholesterol primer
            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
            bloodorchid is always right

            Comment


            • #7
              I wonder about your protein assertion....how high of protein are you talking? Seems that most recognize protein as self limiting at a maximum of 1/3 of your caloric load. And when looking at traditional society some of the heaviest meat eaters (masai and inuit) still only eat approximately 20% of calories from protein. I suppose this is why I always say ....prefer the fatty cuts.

              So as to elevated CRP where is the cut off based on what you've read?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                I wonder about your protein assertion....how high of protein are you talking? Seems that most recognize protein as self limiting at a maximum of 1/3 of your caloric load. And when looking at traditional society some of the heaviest meat eaters (masai and inuit) still only eat approximately 20% of calories from protein. I suppose this is why I always say ....prefer the fatty cuts.

                So as to elevated CRP where is the cut off based on what you've read?
                Sorry, is this directed at me?

                Yes, I was meaning above the 'natural' limit.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                  Sorry, is this directed at me?

                  Yes, I was meaning above the 'natural' limit.
                  Yeah, it was for you. So any amount within the confines of a paleo or whole food diet would likely not reach being designated as "high protein". We are talking more about supplementing excess whey or something then right? Was just checking to make sure I understood what high protein was hinting at.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    Yeah, it was for you. So any amount within the confines of a paleo or whole food diet would likely not reach being designated as "high protein". We are talking more about supplementing excess whey or something then right? Was just checking to make sure I understood what high protein was hinting at.
                    I think that its possible to have 'rabbit starvation' eating lean meats within the confines of paleo. If you lift weights and eat nothing but steak then you quite possibly are getting too much protein. It's really eating too much lean protein that is the problem. Fat fat fatty fat is all good.
                    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                    Griff's cholesterol primer
                    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                    bloodorchid is always right

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think that its possible to have 'rabbit starvation' eating lean meats within the confines of paleo. If you lift weights and eat nothing but steak then you quite possibly are getting too much protein. It's really eating too much lean protein that is the problem. Fat fat fatty fat is all good
                      Are you sure that's really possible? I thought lean meat became repulsive over a certain threshold.
                      Out of context quote for the day:

                      Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Of course it's possible for people to eat too much protein and not enough fats/carbs. It's unsatisfying for your brain and your body, but if no carbs or fats are available, slow protein starvation is better than the alternative, right?

                        This wiki page has more.
                        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                        Griff's cholesterol primer
                        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                        bloodorchid is always right

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Of course it's possible for people to eat too much protein and not enough fats/carbs. It's unsatisfying for your brain and your body, but if no carbs or fats are available, slow protein starvation is better than the alternative, right?

                          This wiki page has more.
                          Sorry, I know rabbit starvation is possible. I meant, is it possible for someone just following a diet, with plenty of access to normal foods, to harm themselves that way? Especially primal, which does not restrict fat or vegetables? I wouldn't expect anyone following paleo/primal to have that problem.
                          Out of context quote for the day:

                          Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Part of the 'evidence' in the article in the OP that low carb is bad is a scientific trial of a low carb / low fat / high protein diet. Aka rabbit starvation. And surprise surprise, that's bad for you. It's worse for you than HCLF. Which (we would argue) is worse than LCHF.

                            I agree with you that that type of diet is not primal. It's just that some people (including the article) are conflating the results of LCLFHP diets with low carb diets in general.
                            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                            Griff's cholesterol primer
                            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                            bloodorchid is always right

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              for good health it is necessary that you need to have
                              low fat and sugar containing diets
                              low consumpion of meat products
                              consumpion of green vegetables and fruits in diet
                              these all things can help in good fitness of the body as well as growth

                              Comment

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