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Shifting From Saturated To Polyunsaturated Fat Linked To Lower Heart Disease Ris

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  • Shifting From Saturated To Polyunsaturated Fat Linked To Lower Heart Disease Ris



    I seem to be constantly under fire by a throng of vegetarian/vegan acquaintances who think my lifestyle is wrong wrong wrong. I can usually defend myself fairly intelligently, but I admit I'm not exactly sure what to make of their most recent round of ammo:


    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/183129.php


    Any takers? Thoughts? Opinions?


  • #2
    1



    Why even argue with them?


    I mean, unless you like it.


    But if not, just explain that you're not interested in having that kind of interaction with them, and that if they keep harassing you, you'll ditch 'em?


    (I didn't look at that bit of "ammo" sorry)


    I've got a friend who keeps telling me my heart is going to explode from my red meat consumption. This while he's high on vicodan, drunk, and eating sweets, and drinking sweetened coffee from starbucks. I just shrug, and don't bother talking to him about it.

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    • #3
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      What a crack of poo.

      This study seems like one big summary of all the previous bad-science studies that CW is based on.

      Polynosaturated fats are loaded with Omega 6 which causes inflamation and premature aging. Did they ever think about looking in to Monosaturated fats properties? I just plain don't get why they keep going back to Poly.

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      • #4
        1



        I'm not going to bother with reading this one because there is so much evidence out there that saturated fat consumption is not an antagonist in heart disease.


        Like this http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_94941.html


        Or actual empirical evidence that saturated fat improves a blood lipid profile. Or how about all of the examples of populations with higher saturated fat consumption having low instance of heart disease like France.


        So I want to know why we are focusing on how much more/less saturated fat contributes to heart disease than polyunsaturated fats when saturated fat does not contribute to heart disease. I wonder what the cancer and CRP stats were on the polyunsaturated group. Gary Taubes in an interview said something about dozens of saturated fat vs polyunsaturated studies and in many there was no difference, many saturated fat was protective and many polyunsaturated was protective but caused more cancer. How about instead of picking and choosing random population statistic studies we evaluate the empirical evidence behind the effects of fats on known risk factors.

        Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

        Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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        • #5
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          I suppose I do kind of like it (mainly because I usually win, lol )


          I'm not delusional enough to think I will ever change the militant vegans' minds, but since they're part of a larger circle of friends who are more impressionable (and who also were copied on the study), I guess I feel a certain "duty" to at least challenge a wild claim like "vegetable oils will make you healthier."

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          • #6
            1



            Oh and also I want to know WHICH polyunsaturated fats? Omega 3 fatty acids would most certainly reduce heart disease, even when coupled with more omega 6 compared to an omega 3 deficient saturated fat group. The fact that there is no mention of type of polyunsaturated fats is evidence of poor science. Durr durr


            The best fat intake to prevent CHD is of course lots of saturated and monounsaturated and a little bit of omega 3 and 6 in a 1:1 ratio.

            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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            • #7
              1



              linked....


              suggests...


              indicates...


              I really hate these words being used in scientific studies. The golden rule of research is that correlation (two things seemingly related) does NOT prove causation.


              people being indoors is strongly linked to rain, but claiming from this that being indoors causes rain is ludicrous.


              people being outdoors suggests that it is sunny outside, but claiming that being outdoors causes sun is ludicrous.


              people who are obese in this country tend to be closer to the poverty line, but claiming that getting richer will help you lose weight is... you guessed it... ludicrous.


              My biggest piece of ammunition is understanding what makes good research good, and bad research bad. I've had friends throw things like the China Study at me, and I've politely dismantled it with this understanding. That pretty much ended that discussion forever, and actually got one of my friends to visit the site too!


              Edit: I think an MDA article explaining the basics of statistical research would be hugely beneficial to the primal community at large. Has something like this been done in the past? I'll link something here if not.

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              • #8
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                You guys are great - thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

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                • #9
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                  http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/3/18/sat-fat-or-pufa-which-one-do-you-fear.html


                  "I cannot emphasize it enough. Avoidance of excess linoleic acid is far more important than being 'low carb'.


                  "It may, in fact, be the lead horseman in the post-industrial diet right now."

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                  • #10
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                    This: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...hy-Gary-Taubes

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                    • #11
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                      You might get a DVD of Fat Head .............. and invite your vegan friends over to see it. Then stand back ....

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                      • #12
                        1



                        I have Fat Head and have offered it (also have The Oiling of America DVD). No takers.


                        I think Lierre Keith summed it up best: "I was on the side of righteousness, and like any fundamentalist, I could only stay there by avoiding information."

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                        • #13
                          1



                          An interesting admission in that article:


                          "Remarkably, although over the last 60 years or so we have been urged to reduce our intake of saturated fat to prevent heart disease, there has been little scientific evidence that when people actually do so it results in less heart disease, according to an HSPH statement."


                          and


                          "Results from prior individual randomized controlled trials of saturated fat reduction and heart disease events were very mixed, with most showing no significant effects."


                          So the researches decide to 'review' the data by selecting some studies but not others, to prove something that the individual randomized studies couldn't. Doesn't sound very scientific to me - or maybe it does.


                          The only sensible thing in that piece is the admission that replacing fats with carbohydrates does not improve health. Maybe someone should tell the AHA. The article also seems to be relaxing the link between cholesterol and heart disease: "The problem with lack of evidence before this study was what the trials focused on: for instance many of them focused on levels of blood cholesterol, which is an indirect marker of heart disease risk, rather than coronary heart disease events." So now they are saying cholesterol doesn't actually cause heart disease - yay, break out the eggnogs!


                          Note also, that the studies only look at 'coronary events'. I would want to look at other health factors like 'death'.

                          My website: http://www.shoppinganywhere.net/

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                          • #14
                            1



                            Kim:


                            Ask your vegetarian and vegans friends where is there discussion of the fact that numerous clinical dietary intervention studies have shown those in the treatment group ( using "heart healthful" polyunsaturated vegetable oils and drastically reducing saturated fats) experienced far greater CAD mortality despite the fact they indeed lowered their cholesterol levels by as much as 35 mg/dl lower than the controls ( using saturated fats)The saturated fat controls fared well.


                            In fact none of the 18 clinical dietary intervention studies to date examining this very issue support the anti- saturated fat dogma at all. Saturated fat restriction is the most useless intervention available for preventing coronary artery disease.


                            Refer your vegan and vegetarian friends to the full text of The Sydney Diet Heart Study, The National Diet Heart Study, The Anti Coronary Club, Minnesota Coronary Study, Rose et al.


                            Please explain to your vegan friends that the only useful CAD preventative interventions are :


                            *appropriate exercise,


                            *diets rich in nutrient dense plant matter,


                            *regular intake of long chain EPA/DHA with a background diet moderate to rich in saturated fats to help absorb this


                            *stress reduction.

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                            • #15
                              1



                              I guess what summed it up for me was this little mention at the very bottom of the article: "The study was sponsored by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NIH) and a Searle Scholar Award from the Searle Funds at the Chicago Community Trust."


                              There's no way National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute would ever give money to sponsor something that goes against conventional grain of thought that they worked so hard on building in the first place.

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