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Dr Rosedal on Calcium

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  • Dr Rosedal on Calcium

    Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
    READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

    Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food. Anthony Bourdain

    and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

  • #2
    very interesting. How much calcium do you get? I don't get much calcium in my diet and was considering a supplement or coconut milk with added calcium. Might reconsider now.
    Last edited by Lukey; 09-05-2012, 04:52 PM.

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    • #3
      If the coconut milk has "added calcium" it'll likely be a cost-effective form of calcium, probably calcium carbonate (chalk, IOW). That wouldn't be an easily absorbable form of the mineral, and that would probably make it problematic.

      If someone needed a calcium supplement then I should think that an expensive one that used microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite (MCHC), the form in which the mineral occurs in bone, would be a better bet. But then who might need it is a question. I wouldn't take it unless there were a good medical reason for believing it necessary for specific reasons.

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      • #4
        Lewis, how much calcium roughly do you get? The only calcium i really get is from brocolli. Should i add in more foods like cheese, yogurt etc?

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        • #5
          wait this is the guy that says that any starch or sugar is toxic, that we're all diabetic, and that anything less than ketosis is unhealthy - right? right, just checking.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lukey View Post
            Lewis, how much calcium roughly do you get? The only calcium i really get is from brocolli. Should i add in more foods like cheese, yogurt etc?
            I don't think anyone can give you a definitive answer as to how much. There are just different opinions. Loren Cordain has long challenged the level of the RDA, hence people in the paleo movement are sceptical of it. Since and he and some of his colleagues have been eating that way for thirty years now I suppose problems would probably have turned up for them by now if he were definitely wrong.

            Vilhjalmur Stefansson, the explorer and anthropologist, was interested in this as in many other similar questions. And there's an interesting discussion in his book The Fat of the Land.

            Someone's put the book online PDF format, if you're interested to have a look:

            http://highsteaks.com/the-fat-of-the...stefansson.pdf

            He asked physical anthropologists to look through bone collections at the Peabody Museum and they found no skeletal abnormalities in the remains of individuals coming from societies where no one was known to drink milk after weaning.

            This is usual reason why people are told to get plenty of calcium -- bone health. Yet, actually it seems to be the protein matrix in the bone that is of far more relevance in that regard. I think the doctor makes that point in the video linked above -- I have come across it before but some time ago.


            As for sources of calcium, you could include some tinned fish with the bones in, such as salmon and sardines. Homemade bone-broth would also supply a range of minerals if you wanted. And, yes, cheese has quite a lot, and yogurt some, too. I don't suppose there's any harm in including those unless you have a problem with casein. Whether you actually need them, as some people claim, is another matter.

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            • #7
              Thanks for the info.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jakey View Post
                wait this is the guy that says that any starch or sugar is toxic, that we're all diabetic, and that anything less than ketosis is unhealthy - right? right, just checking.
                That is a totally inaccurate caricature of Dr. Rosedale's work and positions (probably gleaned from one of Kurt Harris' recent rants). I think Dr. Rosedale deserves some serious props for being someone who has tried to debunk the whole "eat low fat for health and longevity" paradigm for decades, long before Primal/paleo was cool.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  That is a totally inaccurate caricature of Dr. Rosedale's work and positions (probably gleaned from one of Kurt Harris' recent rants). I think Dr. Rosedale deserves some serious props for being someone who has tried to debunk the whole "eat low fat for health and longevity" paradigm for decades, long before Primal/paleo was cool.
                  not gleaned from Kurt Harris' recent rants (SIDE NOTE - where does he rant these days? i'd love to read it!!!!), but do tell me which of those points is off the mark. perhaps i'm not taking into account other goods things he says, but i'm pretty sure i'm otherwise accurate.

                  *edited to add: it's odd that he's also gotten into the whole longevity game, saying that you need to burn fat in order to live longer. i should note that i find almost all longevity claims/advice to be stupid, and probably wrong. guess time will tell.
                  Last edited by jakey; 09-07-2012, 02:53 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jakey View Post
                    not gleaned from Kurt Harris' recent rants (SIDE NOTE - where does he rant these days? i'd love to read it!!!!), but do tell me which of those points is off the mark. perhaps i'm not taking into account other goods things he says, but i'm pretty sure i'm otherwise accurate.

                    *edited to add: it's odd that he's also gotten into the whole longevity game, saying that you need to burn fat in order to live longer. i should note that i find almost all longevity claims/advice to be stupid, and probably wrong. guess time will tell.
                    I stopped reading KH's rants a while back so I wouldn't know how recently or not it's been. I only thought of that because of your sig. Never mind that.

                    Have you actually read Dr. Rosedale's book? I have. Nowhere does he say that we are all diabetic or that sugar is toxic in and of itself (in large quantities over time, yes, but Mark says that too). He does promote ketosis as being a way to optimize health but he never says anyone who isn't constantly in ketosis is dooooomed.

                    Read the book first. Then come back and criticize.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      That is a totally inaccurate caricature of Dr. Rosedale's work and positions (probably gleaned from one of Kurt Harris' recent rants). I think Dr. Rosedale deserves some serious props for being someone who has tried to debunk the whole "eat low fat for health and longevity" paradigm for decades, long before Primal/paleo was cool.
                      Et ego in Arcadia.

                      I guess most of us know whether to pay attention to highly educated and experienced medical doctors or to the twitchy-fingered board trolls who feel threatened by them.

                      It would be better if they were able to sit on their hands, but it's not going to happen.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Have you actually read Dr. Rosedale's book? I have. Nowhere does he say that we are all diabetic or that sugar is toxic in and of itself (in large quantities over time, yes, but Mark says that too). He does promote ketosis as being a way to optimize health but he never says anyone who isn't constantly in ketosis is dooooomed.

                        Read the book first. Then come back and criticize.
                        haven't read his book, but he's all over the internet saying that stuff! in his debates with paul jaminet and others. i'm not making this shit up.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                          I guess most of us know whether to pay attention to highly educated and experienced medical doctors or to the twitchy-fingered board trolls who feel threatened by them.
                          dear lewis,
                          blow me.
                          love,
                          twitchy-fingered board troll.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jakey View Post
                            haven't read his book, but he's all over the internet saying that stuff! in his debates with paul jaminet and others. i'm not making this shit up.
                            In a debate situation stuff gets taken out of context, exaggerated and mis-represented by the opponent, thrown back and forth. Then the debate is Monday Morning quarterbacked by a bunch of other sites and bloggers further distorting the truth. You have managed to get a very slanted view of his actual positions. Beyond distorted, just flat out wrong. Really, his book is excellent. Well worth the read.

                            Originally posted by jakey View Post
                            dear lewis,
                            blow me.
                            love,
                            twitchy-fingered board troll.
                            Now, now. Don't bite Lewis' head off just because somebody took your coffee away.

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                            • #15
                              He has a book? *makes a note* I'll read anything. Right now I'm reading the Starch Solution... although mostly for giggles, and I got it from the library. I'm not paying money for it.
                              Out of context quote for the day:

                              Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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