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Are EFA's really essential?

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  • #46
    At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, here's Matt Stone's take on PUFA's:



    ...not all that different from sensei's. Surprisingly, he disagrees with Peat.
    He also covers some interesting physiological aspects of O3.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

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    • #47
      Here are some Josh Rubin youtube vids on EFA's. I guess I'm getting tired of reading about EFAs...maybe some of you can relate!

      In this first one, about 2 years old, he mainly talks about how the issue is really 'individual' and that lipid blood labs are important to determine whether or not to supplement. He also covers how some people are literally 'flushing their money down the drain' by supplementing:



      In the next video, about 1 year old, he seems to have downed a whole gallon of Peat brand kool-aid. There's no doubt where he stands on the issue here, but he does bring in some more on the physiology of EFAs and why that suggests they aren't healthy:



      In this last vid he gives some specifics on nuts and EFA's, and some more interesting physiology on why nuts contain PUFAs:



      And for those who don't want to have to watch anything, here's an audio interview he did with Ray Peat, be sure to skip the first 3 minutes (technical difficulties), kind of 'direct hit' at around 16:20:

      The Science Behind The Dangers of Polyunsaturated Fats with Ray Peat, PhD. 11/18 by Josh Jeanne Rubin | Blog Talk Radio

      So, there's at least one worker in the alternative health field that thoroughly embrace's the Peat perspective on EFAs.
      (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

      (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
        Do you have a link to the clinical data for this? If valid, this would definitely persuade me that the good Dr (Ray Peat) may be wrong. Nature wouldn't transfer O3 from mommy to baby if it was a toxin, while cannabilizing mommy's brain in the process.


        Yeah I've read these kinds of studies but they always leave me with an uncertain feeling about their validity.
        Or maybe the good Dr (who has religiously avoided O3's for 40 years) just has me spooked.


        Good topic but I want to try to keep this thread focused on EFAs.
        Why do you believe O3 is a toxin? It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.

        Do your own research.
        F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
          Why do you believe O3 is a toxin?
          Ray Peat has a persuasive argument that it is. I'm not convinced...yet.

          Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
          It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.
          Yes, all the experts agree on that.

          Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
          Do your own research.
          That's really what this thread is about. Whatever I find on the topic I post here.
          I invite others to do the same and/or to show how what I find is flawed.
          Thank you for your contribution, I will try to track a link down for it in a few weeks.

          Right now I'm looking at the physiological aspect of EFAs (which would suggest that O6 is a toxin and that therefore so must O3). I'm going to look into the cellular biology of EFAs next, then clinical studies, of which yours will be one of the first.

          It's a slow process, but hopefully worth it.
          (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

          (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

          Comment


          • #50
            2 articles from Swanson Health Blog; Chia/ALA/EPA study & O3 aging study

            Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
            EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.
            Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.
            I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.
            1) Pro-Chia/ALA/EPA article & study: Chia Seeds Raise Blood ALA and EPA Levels for Postmenopausal Women - Swanson Health Products

            2) Also from Swanson Health Blog: Can Omega-3s Slow the Aging Process? [VIDEO]
            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Betorq View Post
              This short article describes how both of these claims can be true - yet - how PUFA's should still be avoided in the diet (from Peat's point of view):

              PUFAs – Essential or Toxic?
              (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

              (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

              Comment


              • #52
                Although from the start, it's completely asinine to make such a stark comparison between essential compounds like water and "EFAs", or even oxygen for that matter as they're all just pieces of chemical equations...

                There's an awesome synopsis in the latest Psychology Today about your topic:
                How men's minds reveal the wisdom of women's bodies

                Long story short version of that piece is
                -Women predominantly house their DHA stores in their hips
                -These stores are broken down in the later stages of pregnancy during the more important stages of the fetus's brain development
                -Women with higher DHA stores (and a better waist-to-hip ratio) produce children that are more intelligent, more successful, and reach sexual maturity faster
                -Men rate female body attractiveness largely related to their waist-to-hip ratio (women with a better ratio even cause special neurological responses in men hence why porn stars are shaped differently than runway models) most likely for the reasons listed above as it would ensure more successful offspring
                "You can demonstrate the purpose and limits of human digestion with a simple experiment: eat a steak with some whole corn kernels, and see what comes out the other end. It won’t be the steak."
                -J.Stanton

                Comment


                • #53
                  Which actually I guess breaks down the argument to whether you are considering something "essential" to just not die, or "essential" to actually operate at proper functioning levels.
                  "You can demonstrate the purpose and limits of human digestion with a simple experiment: eat a steak with some whole corn kernels, and see what comes out the other end. It won’t be the steak."
                  -J.Stanton

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    We need to look more at The 'parent' form omega-6 linoleic acid (LA). The 'parent' form omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA).. we don't get enough of them, most hear EFA's they shoot right for the fish oil which is high in omega 3, but omega 3 from fish is a derivative of the parent form. omega 3 from fish is EPA and DHA. But wait i thought "fish don't have oil glands", so how do they get oil from them. oh they juice them? what? research that. SOUNDS Rancid already.
                    The far superior alternative is to get your PEO's from the highest quality source; organically grown and processed cold-pressed seeds. We need more of the parent forms in our bodies,
                    Different organs in the body require different amounts and different ratios of PEFA omega-6 to PEFA omega-3 to function properly. Most organs require a 4:1 ratio, but the brain and nervous system, for instance, run happily on a 1:1 ratio whereas the muscles need a 5.5:1 - 7.5:1 ratio (depending on their physical condition) and, although not needing vast amounts overall, the skin needs a 1,000:1 ratio.
                    As you can see, nearly all organs need more omega-6 than omega-3.
                    When the supply of PEO's is less than the body's total requirement, the body prioritises delivery, feeding the organs it considers most important first: the brain, heart, lungs and kidneys. This, of course, results in 'less important' organs receiving inadequate supplies, leading to various illnesses.. sounds like breast cancer<< omega PEO's are oxygen magnets, less oxygen better chance of getting cancer. cancer doesnt like oxygen. once a cell is deprived of 35% percent or more oxygen it can become cancerous.
                    If our body needs EPA and DHA Your body is able to convert ALA into EPA and DHA. Think we are all overdosing on high amounts of rancid fish oils that are body doesn't need. Look more into getting PEO's in your diet.

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