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  • #61
    Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
    Gadsie, things are different when you're young. Your body hasn't been beat up like when you're middle aged and feeling the abuse. You can get away with a lot more, and I wouldn't worry about it as much if I were your age.

    Bad food is kind of like bad relationship choices when you're young. Yeah, the highs and lows are exciting when you're 19 and life is all about non-stop adrenaline. When you're in your 40s, you realize the drama is a pain in the ass and it would be really nice to find someone that just makes you happy and feeling prett good all the time, not insanely high and then in the pits of hell the next day.

    That's kind of how "bad" food is - like a dysfunctional relationship. You feel really great, and then you feel like crap. Repeat as many times as needed to learn that it sucks over the long haul.
    Even if dairy was a problem for me, I would still eat it as long as it doesn't cause chronic diseases. It'd definiteley be worth the pain.
    But an example are soccer players who suddenly fall dead of a heart attack in the middle of the field. This is probably caused by long term chronic cardio or so. But maybe they never felt bad at all before they fell dead.

    I don't want that to happen to me. I mean that I'm consuming dairy (or something else) all the time without feeling bad but one day BAM I got diabetes or something else.
    well then

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
      I mean that I'm consuming dairy (or something else) all the time without feeling bad but one day BAM I got diabetes or something else.
      Not gonna happen. Have some cheese.
      Durp.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
        Not gonna happen. Have some cheese.
        lol just got some raw nettle cheese from the farm
        well then

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        • #64
          Mark and others recommend grass fed meats and dairy, seafood, organic vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds for your diet, plus a buttload of exercise, filtered water and good sleep.

          Anyone with common sense can see this would be healthy; it's just that grains and sugars are addictive and weak people can't get off of them, much less the booze, uppers and downers.

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          • #65
            Why not Mark? You got somebody better to follow? I followed rest of the convention wisdom lemmings and at the age of 46, the doctor told me I was going to be dead in 10 years and the last 5 years were going to suck really badly. I was 46, type II diabetic, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and sleep apnea weighing in at 370 lbs. Following the lemmings was sucking for me. Found Paleo by accident, read Mark's book, 10 months later I am down 90 lbs, I am in the best shape of my life. The numbers are not where the need to be yet, but they are heading in the right direction. Works for me. So I'll ask again, why not Mark?
            I Kettlebell therefore I am.

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            • #66
              I think if we were eating exactly what our ancestors eating there'd be a lot more insects on the table...
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

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              • #67
                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                I think if we were eating exactly what our ancestors eating there'd be a lot more insects on the table...
                This has nothing to do with anything, but there is at least one member on the forum that self-admits to eating insects regularly. Your thought has crossed more than a few minds, including my own. There are books you can buy on Amazon specifically on that topic.

                You see plenty of questions about how to eat liver and marrow and other oogly (animal) bits (I happen to always have been an oogly-bits lover, even pre-Primal) - you might want to toss this one out there and see what happens.
                I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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                • #68
                  Hi Kingofturtles

                  Yeah, I know your quandry. My personal path went like this: SAD to ovo-lacto-vegetarian wholefoods to omnivore to Primal. I tried to read everything I could get my hands on, and it drove me insane trying to be the scientist (no degrees in any of the sciences) and reconcile conflicting studies / opinions / whatever.

                  In the end, I firmly believe there is no SINGULAR diet that is "perfect" for EVERYBODY. I see it in my own 4 children, born of the same two parents (hubby and I), but three requiring diet modifications different from each other to keep them healthy. I took them to truly high-powered docs but even they couldn't help with our challenges. I learned a lot, saw tons of kids along the way for whom the docs DID find answers - just not us. So I was left with sick kids, no answers, and something in this mama that just refused to give up.

                  I would like to think that it went that way for many on this forum, and so, being the generally fearless bunch they are, they took matters into their own hands and did the Experiment of One. I did the same for my kids.

                  My advice is not to give yourself a headache over it. Good research is, well, good. But even the best research will not apply for EVERY INDIVIDUAL (I am thinking of outliers here, but even they count as they are, well, human, too - I know a young girl who has PKU (phenylketonuria) - and the Primal would have her severely permanently brain damaged in a short amount of time). In the end, you really do need to go into yourself and see (cliche alert!) What Works For You. And let what works for someone else just work for someone else.

                  Now I don't mind conflicting research so much. All that conflicting research brought me the wealth of differing ideas that allowed me to even find the thing(s) that got my kids healthy and growing again. That said, Mark brought me the Primal, and that menu of ideas covers everything that is difficult in this house re food and then some. Study-quality scientific? - not on your life, but I will take it.
                  I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by palebluedots View Post
                    Something rubs me the wrong way about how that was said. I suspect it's not that people with health problems are gullible and will "latch on" to whatever's out there, but rather that they are more inclined to try experiments to see what makes them feel better. As you admittedly have no health problems, you may not understand the awfulness of not being well on a day-to-day basis. For myself, after years of staunchly believing what the science does officially say got me absolutely nowhere, so it was time for a change. It's still approached in a completely reasonable manner, and it's not at all that I've just latched onto the next fad. :-/
                    ++++1- well said, and true for me too. Since paleo/primal, so many issues are gone, even without weight loss (could lose about 25 pounds).

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                      Even if dairy was a problem for me, I would still eat it as long as it doesn't cause chronic diseases. It'd definiteley be worth the pain.
                      But an example are soccer players who suddenly fall dead of a heart attack in the middle of the field. This is probably caused by long term chronic cardio or so. But maybe they never felt bad at all before they fell dead.

                      I don't want that to happen to me. I mean that I'm consuming dairy (or something else) all the time without feeling bad but one day BAM I got diabetes or something else.
                      Why worry so much? I'm not a religious person, but just trying to be confident that I will go when my time comes, has helped me a lot to let go of the constant worrying and episodes of anxiety about (sudden) death. Of course taking good care of your body makes life better, more fun and probably longer, but no diet or way of eating could possibly be a 100 % insurance against heart-attacks or cancer, or fate for that matter. If you feel well, just enjoy your life to the max, and please don't be scared because there is no reason for it . And enjoy the cheese .

                      On topic: I've never EVER got into any diet or special way of eating before (just tried to eat less to lose weight and did so having a very hard time and not nearly the results I've been aiming for) , but when I stumbled upon MDA things just instantly made sense. I've adopted the Primal lifestyle immediately and almost two months in my body keeps telling me this way of eating is right for me. I've lost 9 cm on my waist in less than 7 weeks, effortlessly. When even 2 cm used to be almost impossible to achieve for me before. This may be anecdotal evidence, but seeing my belly shrink constantly and losing some pounds and feeling better than ever is the only evidence I need for myself. Might sound a bit vague to others, but to me it's the best reason to go with Mark's ideas combined with my own intuition (and my intuition sometimes does have other ideas than Mark, but not very often..)

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                      • #71
                        For me, it's not a matter of believing in any particular person, it's more about what makes logical sense AND how does eating a certain way make me feel.

                        I've flirted with this way of eating ever since high school, when my boyfriend's father (a holistic nutrtionist) promoted salmon and raw milk and grassfed meats...however, a sugar addiction and a history of binge-eating kept me eating a ton of crap that I knew wasn't good for me.

                        I fully-embraced this way of eating to deal with my MS; in 2 years I've not had one new brain lesion or physical symptom. I take that to mean that whatever I'm doing with my diet is working. However, I still have fatigue, so I'm trying to figure out how to make changes that are still compatible with the 'what makes sense' part to improve the 'how I'm feeling' part. This has meant challenging some of my pre-conceived notions of 'what makes sense', meaning that maybe it's okay to have some more cane sugar in my diet because it raises my too-low blood presure and pulse and might possibly lead me to feeling more energized. If I keep the sugar in moderation, and combine it with a healthy diet, and I actually feel significantly better, I think that's more important than holding onto the idea that being a 'fat burning machine' as Mark promotes is the best way to be.

                        I think he's a smart guy, a good writer, and a great marketer, but it doesn't mean his word is gospel. He's not coming from a place of chronic disease, or even obesity. He was an already fit, active guy who made some improvements. I like to read his posts because I think he does an excellent job scouring for legitimate scientific sources, and freely admits when he doesn't know the answer to something, but I think that anything he claims can, and should be challenged, the same with anybody else.

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                        • #72
                          "They run triathlons and rock climb and hike and bike and are phenomenally fit and healthy."
                          How old you all are? Were their mothers vegan? Was their childhood vegan? Is it possible that it takes some time for effects of a wrong diet?

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                          • #73
                            I am older than graduate students here and I am not primal. I've made my adjustments - dropping beloved bakery stuff, eliminating vegetable oils, adding hated vegetables, reducing grains and upgrading the quality of food I eat - and I am planning to stop here. I do eat some grains (not much) and I do eat dairy - butter, yogurt and of course, of course cheeses.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by MissusN View Post
                              Why worry so much? I'm not a religious person, but just trying to be confident that I will go when my time comes, has helped me a lot to let go of the constant worrying and episodes of anxiety about (sudden) death. Of course taking good care of your body makes life better, more fun and probably longer, but no diet or way of eating could possibly be a 100 % insurance against heart-attacks or cancer, or fate for that matter.
                              The problem isn't sudden death. What I'm trying to avoid is the long, drawn out, painful and slow death. It took my dad 17 years from diagnosis to death from Parkinson's, and it was not pretty.

                              But I absolutely agree that you can only do the best that you can do and life will still happen anyway. You could do everything perfectly, have no fun because of it, and STILL end up with something awful. So you might as well do a reasonably good job at staying healthy and make sure you have some fun while you're still here among the living.
                              Durp.

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                              • #75
                                RitaRose: You ate an entire cake in one day? hahahahahha That's just hilarious. You must have been on some hyped up sugar rush. Funny as heck!
                                ----------------------------------------
                                F, 48, 5'10"
                                Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                                Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                                Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

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