If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
BTW, others here have a far stronger grasp of nutrition science, but I do get tired of seeing cholesterol being referred to synonymously with LDL, HDL, and triglycerides. Cholesterol is a steroid that is active in the endocrine system. Any reference to cholesterol as causal, rather than correlative, to CVD is highly dubious and shows a rather fundamental lack of understanding of the mechanisms of CVD.
Agreed ... but, putting on my pedantic hat ... Cholesterol is actually a high molecular weight alcohol, hence the -ol suffix, as in methanol ( 1 carbon alcohol ), ethanol ( a popular 2 carbon alcohol) ... and cholesterol ( 27 carbon alcohol!! )
Which goes to prove that alcohol is essential for your metabolic health Perhaps these researchers were heavily imbibing the 2 carbon version when they wrote this paper ...
"The researchers said the most striking diet changes were sharp declines in consumption of boiled potato and crackers like whole grain crisp bread. The changes were balanced by increasing intake of rice and pasta and whole grain soft bread."
So in addition to increasing fat, the subjects *increased* their rice, pasta, and whole grain bread intake??
It's very difficult from the article you linked to to tell what exactly happened in the study. If I am reading the article correctly, and participants had an increase in eating rice, pasta, and whole grain bread in addition to their fat increase, it's that much harder to blame the fat in and of itself.
Oh, and Knifegill - great numbers, but mine (tested in October after 4 months primal) were
Triglycerides = 30 (yes, 30)
HDL = 99
LDL = 102 (calculated, not direct)
Total Cholesterol = 207
Sorry, couldn't resist since you wrote "beat that!" :-P
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
It is well known that increasing dietary fat increases cholesterol levels. All else being equal, when a given individual increases fat consumption, that individual's cholesterol numbers will increase. If you adopt a low carb diet without changing your overall caloric intake, then you must necessarily increase your intake of proteins or fats, or far more likely, both. In so doing, you will observe the attendant increase in cholesterol levels. This is not controversial, nor does it actually provide any useful information.
The crux of the matter is whether higher cholesterol numbers are actually indicative of anything with respect to health, and Ancel Keys not withstanding, studies show that there is a broad optimal range for cholesterol, and both very low or very high levels are representative of some underlying pathology that will impact on your health. So, what is this optimal range? Well, if your cholesterol levels are between 140 - 280 mg/dl, mortality rates from all causes are relatively flat. If you are lower than 140 mg/dl, or higher than 280 mg/dl, mortality increases sharply. So, if you present me with a study where the average participant's cholesterol levels were increased by 40 mg/dl from 180 to 220 ( say ) with the adoption of a low carbohydrate diet ... color me unimpressed.
But, having said all of that ... you really need to read this paper to realize what a bunch of utter crap it is. I caution you, though, it is a waste of time. Here's the punchline: over the 25 years of the study, there was a steady relative shift from carbohydrate intake to fat among participants, and an overall reduction in serum cholesterol from about 6.5 mmol/L to 5.5 mmol/L. Yes, you read that right, an overall decrease in cholesterol levels. Of course, crank that result through sensationalist media outlets and it becomes "low carbohydrate diets kill."
Nothing to see here ... move along.
I quoted the entire reply so if anyone skips ahead in this thread they won't miss it. You hit the nail on the head. Science FTW.
If a person comes to PB diet, eats that way for a while, then gets tested and has "normal" cholesterol results, then everyone applauds and says "Good for you".
If another person starts PB and has "high" cholesterol results, everyone says "Those numbers are great! Cholesterol is really meaningless."
So, which is it?
To me, it easily can be both- if someone's goal is to get their cholesterol in line with the establishment numbers, I'm happy they reached it. I don't have to agree with their goal to be happy they hit it. Personally, I don't care about my LDL at all, barely care about my HDL, and really care about my trigs, vldl and CRP. To me, TC is a red herring, so I don't worry about it. But if it makes someone else happy, more power to them.
I don't know; i have concerns as well. While I ahave been 30 pounds overweight my whole adult life, my cholesterol has always been good -- below 200 with high good chol & low bad. Triglycerides are great. I don't need them to change, but I used to only eat meat a few times a week. . . So eating bacon etc, just gives me pause.
Then don't eat bacon.
My diet looks very 'conventional.' it just happens to be grain/legume free.
For breakfast, I often eat 2-3 eggs plus some veggies or fruit (depends upon how I feel for breakfast). Sometimes it's just eggs and tea.
For lunch, I normally don't have lunch.
For dinner, I typically have some form of meat (chicken, fish, beef, venison) with a LOT of veggies (Big Salads, lots of steamed veggies, sometimes roasted root veggies, etc). And, I usually like to have some fruit for dessert.
I might eat bacon 1-2 times a week, and usually 2 pieces of shoulder bacon at that. But, i prefer sausage, and now I basically make my own (using venison no less -- and I make it without casings, so it's usually just ground venison plus seasonings all browned up and tasty).
I do have potatoes and sweet potatoes in my diet about once a week (one or the other), and I have rice about 1-2x per month (with thai food!).
I have tea or water all day long. That's what I like to drink.
I probably have cake or chocolate or some other non-primal thing about 1x per month or less at this point. It's just following how I feel, really. If I have nuts, it's once a week or less.
And that is me. Honestly, it's simple as can be. And, my diet is looking rather zone-ish these days: 40% fat, 30% protein, 30% carbohydrate. And, it's great.
Yeah, I think that bacon is a bit overrated on this here forum here.
We have soup as our go-to breakfast, largely since I have the soul of a scotsman and you can buy mutton flaps or half a pigs head for $4-5. Whereas 500g of decent bacon is $10/pk around here, and stretches for the same number of meals (about 3).