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Why Asian Rice Diets Do Not Cause Degenerative Diseases?

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  • #31
    They don't eat the giant pile of rice we get from Asian restaurants, that's why. They eat a small amount of rice with their typically small meals. I understand many Japanese people eat sushi rolls for lunch, not sushi rolls for an appetizer to a giant lunch with rice stir-fry (like we do at Japanese steakhouses).

    Moreover, white rice really is more of a whole grain food, not nearly as processed as grain flours that make up a lot of the grain consumption of American and Western European diets. If you think about digestion in a macro way: we are digesting our food to break it down and absorb nutrients. Flour is already ground so finely that our bodies don't have to break it down as much (even "whole grain flour"), and it has a greater surface area compared to a real whole grain. This means it is broken down into glucose and absorbed much faster than white rice. So Asians that eat their 1/3-1/2 cup white rice with a meal STILL get a slower glucose rise than an American eating whole grain toast every morning.
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    • #32
      If I may add an observation - The image of people all over Asia riding their bikes for transportaton has gone through a huge change. I've been going to China on a regular basis (4-6x/year) since 2001. On my first trip to Beijing, there were bikes EVERYWHERE, more than cars; also, many men were still wearing the "Chairman Mao Pajamas." Now, there are very few bikes, car traffic is horrendous and no one wears those PJs anymore.

      Just sayin'....

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      • #33
        I just bought The China Study so I can answer questions like this. I didn't realize there was a rebuttal book as well, more reading! My boss (a fitness instructor) has bought into The China Study, and has basically turned vegetarian. She does not quite know the extent of my eating habits. I don't want to go there until I read the book and can defend to the death! Although, she has a better memory for facts than I do so I may get creamed

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        • #34
          Here's something you might find interesting Perfect Health Diet - A diet for healing chronic disease, restoring youthful vitality, and achieving long life

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          • #35
            Originally posted by apple View Post
            They don't eat the giant pile of rice we get from Asian restaurants, that's why. They eat a small amount of rice with their typically small meals. I understand many Japanese people eat sushi rolls for lunch, not sushi rolls for an appetizer to a giant lunch with rice stir-fry (like we do at Japanese steakhouses).
            That's not my experience. Chinese stir fry meals (that they cook for themselves) tend to be a big portion of rice, a medium portion of veggies and a small portion of meat. In about a 5-3-1 ratio. Again, that's only in my experience. I'm sure different cultures do things differently and asia is so huge that almost any generalisation is untrue.

            Originally posted by apple View Post
            Moreover, white rice really is more of a whole grain food, not nearly as processed as grain flours that make up a lot of the grain consumption of American and Western European diets. If you think about digestion in a macro way: we are digesting our food to break it down and absorb nutrients. Flour is already ground so finely that our bodies don't have to break it down as much (even "whole grain flour"), and it has a greater surface area compared to a real whole grain. This means it is broken down into glucose and absorbed much faster than white rice. So Asians that eat their 1/3-1/2 cup white rice with a meal STILL get a slower glucose rise than an American eating whole grain toast every morning.
            This seems like a way of rationalising complex carbs into your diet. I'm not a carb hater, but I don't think that that's good reasoning. All the glucose chains get broken down to glucose. The only 'solution' is to not consume excessive glucose.
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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            • #36
              I've been to a few traditional Asian places, when I used to live in L.A. The common denominators were rice being served last; and considerably small in portion size.
              If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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              • #37
                I found in Korea that the rice portions were also quite small, usually about 1/2 cup (except maybe in bibimbap, but even then, less than you'd be served here). But from my experience, most of the world also has much smaller serving sizes in general than you'd get in a restaurant in North America, particularly in the US (although we are catching up here).
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                • #38
                  One thing I noticed when living in Asia is also that their desserts are very bland and lacking in sweetness for most part. So people aren't inhaling 200 grams of sugar when they have some sweets with dinner.

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                  • #39
                    If people can get access to truly traditional Asian cuisine, I'm sure they'll be well-served.
                    If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by apple View Post
                      They don't eat the giant pile of rice we get from Asian restaurants, that's why.
                      I'm late to the thread, but that's correct.

                      Example: Korean daily proportions 300g rice, 300g vegetables, 230g animal foods.
                      http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/1/44.full.pdf

                      I've gone off on people who misrepresent the diets of Asia before but don't feel in the mood right now.

                      A few quick points. Don't become fixated on rice, rice portions are small and have decreased over the years. Sugar/HFCS consumption is low in NE Asia, KR in particular does not like a sweet taste (that's a huge clue to how they hold the lowest obesity rate in the developed world). Dairy isn't big in NE Asia either, Koreans especially hate cheese. Bread is disliked as well. "Vegetable" oil consumption is low. Water or tea is the drink of choice. Portions are normal. Asians eat a good amount of fatty meat, they like the fat/skin. Basically everything that makes Americans sick isn't done in Asia. Easy.

                      Grains are necessary post-Neolothic to support the population. That doesn't mean they are great. But it also doesn't mean you need to have obesity, diabetes, heart attack, cancer on a Neolithic diet.
                      Last edited by KimchiNinja; 11-24-2013, 04:10 AM.

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                      • #41
                        White rice is seen as a safe starch in primal communities anyway. Not bad, not good, pretty neutral.

                        In northern china we consume more wheat and less rice, but the wheat we use is not the modern American dwarf wheat subjected to strong derision by the primal/paleo community.

                        However, the other parts of the diet... Veggies, animals head to tail ( gelatinous cuts+ offal), strong emphasis on fruits for dessert instead of random crap, and etc are solidly consistent with paleo. Baked desserts are kind of festival food not every day food. I grew up with meals of meat, veggies, eggs, fruits, dairy accounting for 70-80% of my caloric intake. The rest is rice/wheat. I didn't know what candy was until I went off to preschool. Oh what a glorious day that was... I spit out the piece of candy to run home to show to mom what amazing stuff I discovered at preschool. It was 50% melted by the time I got home...




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                        • #42
                          Points to consider:
                          -Ideal macronutrient quantities and food types are established by genetic patterns. Rice has fewer toxins and those Asians who ate more carbs traditionally are better adapted to carb-eating.
                          -In accordance with that, Paleo should be an ancestral diet, with no universal 'diet plan' for every human. Tweak and learn.
                          -Diabetes among Chinese teens is higher than among US teens.
                          -Asian lifestyles usually involve far more activity than Western lifestyles. This, even under a 'one fits all' plan, allows for greater carb consumption.
                          -Western diseases are often accumulations of multiple problems, rather than a single factor. If you remove most problems and keep one, your chances of living a normal life are quite high. The human body is well-adapted to occasional poisoning and mistreatment.
                          -Your understanding of carb breakdown, insulin cycles and starch is poor. Did you know that a slow-release carb will spike your blood sugar lower for longer? Or that caffeine intake can cause an insulin spike, as caffeine causes underlying stress, which triggers the release of muscle glycogen? Or that fructose's double impact on the liver means it affects insulin and blood lipid levels more adversely than pure glucose? Or that cooked, cooled starches can be broken down by bacteria instead of enzymes, which means the by-products could be sugars (from breaking down the starch) or even SCFAs (from bacterial death)? And that the same goes for certain forms of fibre?
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                          • #43
                            There is nothing wrong with rice, and any athlete who trains in an intense manner should eat some.
                            Pure carbs, gluten free, cheap. What's not to like?
                            If you're sedentary, or you think that walking is exercise, then avoiding rice is a good bet.
                            But if you bust ass during your workouts, have some rice. You'll have better workouts, and you won't gain weight.

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                            • #44
                              Exercise and quantity. Once food is overabundant, no matter how clean/beneficial, disease surfaces.

                              or you think that walking is exercise
                              It is. It is actually one of the best providing you have the time to devote to it. Like 3-5 + hours a day, out of doors and in the interesting terrain. Busting your ass during a short workouts after sitting 12+ hours is a modern way of compressing a more natural lifestyle, which involves staying on your feet moving all day long.
                              Last edited by Leida; 11-25-2013, 07:09 AM.
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                              • #45
                                Western society are not really afflicted by degenerative diseases, they are afflicted by "super generative" diseases. That is, all their disease comes from having more, too much, excess. Look at cancer...
                                Cancer never degenerates an organ meaning you have an organ, you get cancer wich then subtracts that organ to leave half an organ. Cancer always "adds on top of" the organ, you get that organ plus a growth of cancerous tissue as well. It's an additive disease.

                                Obesity is the same, super generative disease.

                                Now onto Asian cultures. The majority of Asians populations are poor. They simply do to much work and too little food availability to be able to sit around eating all day. So it doesn't really matter what macro source they eat. If the calories aren't there they aren't gunna get the super generative diseases us westerners get.


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