Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Red meat consumption, iron metabolism and accelerated aging

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Huh - interesting....

    I eat grass-fed red meat EVERY DAY along with lots of nonheme sources or iron (with vit C for better absorption) and have a hard time meeting the current RDA of Iron... as a pre-menopausal woman, i struggle with low iron (and boy can i feel it) The physical symptoms of being low in iron (the fatigue, feeling cold etc...) and of course the much more severe symptoms of actual anemia is, to me, the body's way of saying what it needs...

    I try to get all my nutrients from my food - so do not supplement iron, but honestly - considering the absorption rate, is this really an issue? a normal, healthy person getting too MUCH iron from food? (with the exception of eating loads of liver every day perhaps...) hmmmm

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Alainneire View Post
      Huh - interesting....

      I eat grass-fed red meat EVERY DAY along with lots of nonheme sources or iron (with vit C for better absorption) and have a hard time meeting the current RDA of Iron... as a pre-menopausal woman, i struggle with low iron (and boy can i feel it) The physical symptoms of being low in iron (the fatigue, feeling cold etc...) and of course the much more severe symptoms of actual anemia is, to me, the body's way of saying what it needs...

      I try to get all my nutrients from my food - so do not supplement iron, but honestly - considering the absorption rate, is this really an issue? a normal, healthy person getting too MUCH iron from food? (with the exception of eating loads of liver every day perhaps...) hmmmm
      Yep, this is a topic that is completely different between men and _pre-menopausal_ women.
      You're getting a monthly iron flush that men just don't get (unless they donate blood monthly).
      That's why researchers think pre-menopausal women have lower rates of cardio related disease than males who don't give blood regularly.

      Well they're lower at least until they become post-menopausal. Then they catch up quickly to their same-age male counter parts.

      Based on what you've shared, sounds like you need the iron. Enjoy the red meat!
      (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

      (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

      Comment


      • #18
        Found thes after a little Googling tonight, my research continues. The first is an exceptionally technical article on iron metabolism:

        Biochemical Journal (2011) 434, 365-381 - J. Wang and K. Pantopoulos - Regulation of cellular iron metabolism

        I'm still digesting whether it sheds any light on red meat consumption. Also, here is interesting paper presenting data on iron deprivation and successful aging:

        http://skinboutique.ca/Iron%20Scientific%20Paper.pdf

        None of this bodes well for diets high in red meat. I mean the fact that qualified researchers are making definite links between longevity and IRON DEPRIVATION should be telling us something.

        I'm listening...anybody else, Bueller, Bueller??
        (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

        (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

        Comment


        • #19
          Does whale meat and seal meat count as red meat? If so, what have Inuit people been doing about it for the last few thousand years? Their bodies must have a way of regulating iron levels....
          And the Maasai who drink cow's blood? Do they also donate?
          Female, age 51, 5' 9"
          SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

          Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
          2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
            Does whale meat and seal meat count as red meat? If so, what have Inuit people been doing about it for the last few thousand years? Their bodies must have a way of regulating iron levels....
            And the Maasai who drink cow's blood? Do they also donate?
            Good questions, so I googled them, here's what I found:

            Do Primitive Peoples Really Live Longer? : Disease Proof
            (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

            (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Antonio192
              I'm not concerned about iron overload, per se. Well no more than anybody else should be.
              No, I'm not contradicting myself by continuing to participate in this post.

              (1) Here's a link to the technical definition of that term: Iron overload - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

              (2) If you want to accuse me of being afraid of anything it's this: I have normal blood iron levels.

              (3) The blood iron levels presently deemed 'normal' may in fact be excessive with respect to the optimal "rate of aging".

              So, my 'concern' is that my diet has been too high in read meat, and thus iron intake, leading to an accelerated rate of aging - even though my blood iron levels are normal. This concern is not related to anything to do with "pathologically excessive" levels of blood iron that can create immediate health consequences (like one of the other posters mothers unfortunately experienced).

              REMINDER: you can still be PALEO without red meat. It's not that hard just think seafood, eggs, fowl...
              (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

              (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
                Found thes after a little Googling tonight, my research continues. The first is an exceptionally technical article on iron metabolism:

                Biochemical Journal (2011) 434, 365-381 - J. Wang and K. Pantopoulos - Regulation of cellular iron metabolism

                I'm still digesting whether it sheds any light on red meat consumption. Also, here is interesting paper presenting data on iron deprivation and successful aging:

                http://skinboutique.ca/Iron%20Scientific%20Paper.pdf

                None of this bodes well for diets high in red meat. I mean the fact that qualified researchers are making definite links between longevity and IRON DEPRIVATION should be telling us something.

                I'm listening...anybody else, Bueller, Bueller??
                That second paper is about iron chelation for anti-wrinkle creams. It doesn't address long-term health
                Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by peril View Post
                  That second paper is about iron chelation for anti-wrinkle creams. It doesn't address long-term health
                  You're trivializing it. It's true that's it's not a deeply rigorous paper but not everyone on this board is interested in that kind of fare. In fact, many here might be more interested in a 'fluffier' piece that simply shows how lowering blood iron levels in the skin REDUCES WRINKLES. Yes a cream can do that but so could going through a dermal chelation process.

                  Now if you care to pick apart the first paper - I'm all ears.
                  (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

                  (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    For those interested, I went to a red cross blood drive in my area today, for the first time in about 10 years.
                    Here are some relevant things I learned from doing so:

                    (1) I'd guess about 50% of 'first timers' get declined. There's a whole host of medical conditions that now precludes somebody from donating. The list is at least twice as long as 10 years ago. So, for many people giving blood is not going to be an option to reduce blood iron levels.

                    (2) They now require waiting at least 2 months between donations (57 days to be exact). Keep in mind, the Red Cross will state it ALWAYS needs more blood. I was told this is because they don't want people to become anemic. In other words, a monthly donation of a pint of blood is enough to bring peoples blood iron levels down to anemic levels over a few short months. But donating a pint every 2 months isn't enough.

                    (3) They test BP, pulse rate and hemoglobin. The use the hemoglobin to determine iron levels. The scale they use for this is as follows:

                    10: low (borderline anemic)
                    18: high (borderline hemochromatosis)

                    Mine measured 14.7, average as I expected.

                    (4) I plan to eat red meat only 1-2x per week for the next 2 months. One serving is my 'weekly liver'. I will return to give blood again in about 2 months and will then report my hemoglobin level here in this thread. It will be a good indicator of how any of this effects blood iron levels.

                    Of course I'll be doing all the primal exercises all along as well.
                    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

                    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The search continues, some more findings:

                      (1) Information from Wikipedia on the low-side of anemia ( Anemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ):
                      WHO Grading of anemia:
                      * Grade 1 (Mild Anemia): 10 g/dl - cutoff point for ages
                      * Grade 2 (Moderate Anemia): 7-10 g/dl
                      * Grade 3 (Severe Anemia): below 7 g/dl
                      National Cancer Institute Grading of Anemia:
                      * Grade 0 (within normal limits) 12.016.0 g/dl for women and 14.018.0 g/ dl for men
                      * Grade 1 (Mild) 10 g/dl to levels within normal limits
                      * Grade 2 (Moderate) 8.010.0 g/dl
                      * Grade 3 (Severe) 6.57.9 g/dl
                      * Grade 4 (Life threatening) <6.5 g/dl

                      This confirms the scale that the red cross workers gave me above and provides some more detail.

                      (2) A cautionary note about the use of hemoglobin levels to determine iron overload status: ( The myths and realities of hemochromatosis )

                      An elevated hemoglobin is common in hemochromatosis
                      Some physicians have told patients that they do not have hemochromatosis because their hemoglobin levels are normal. Perhaps this is based on the concept that if iron deficiency reduces hemoglobin, iron excess could increase hemoglobin. A review of 634 C282Y homozygotes at our clinic at the London Health Sciences Centre (London, Ontario) showed a mean hemoglobin level of 14513 g/L [14.5+/-1.3g/dL], which suggests that polycythemia is not a reliable marker for iron overload.

                      (3) From a NIH 1995 study on centenarians ( [Red blood cell parameters of hea... [Nihon Ronen Igakkai Zasshi. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI ):
                      Note: free full text available at the link above
                      Abstract

                      Since the number of centenarians is increasing rapidly in recent years, the establishment of normal ranges in red blood cell (RBC) parameters for healthy centenarians is necessary for diagnostic criteria of anemia. The subjects were 129 centenarians consisting of 27 men (17; healthy, 69; low ADL) and 102 women (33; healthy, 69; low ADL) after excluding centenarians with diseases affecting RBC parameters. The t test was used for statistical evaluation. The mean RBC count for healthy centenarian men was 403 +/- 54.7 x 10(4)/microliters; hemoglobin (Hb) level, 12.4 +/- 1.3 g/dl; hematocrit (Hct), 38.2 +/- 3.9%; MVC, 95.3 +/- 5.3 fl; MCH, 31.4 +/- 2.2 pg; and MCHC, 32.1 +/- 1.1%. Comparable results for healthy centenarian women were as follows: 375 +/- 43.9 x 10(4)/microliters, 11.6 +/- 1.2 g/dl, 36.3 +/- 3.6%, 97.1 +/- 5.3 fl, 31.0 +/- 2.3 pg, and 32.0 +/- 1.3%, respectively. The mean Hb for healthy centenarian women was significantly lower than that for healthy centenarian men. The mean RBC, Hb and hematocrit values for low ADL-centenarian men were lower than the comparable values for healthy centenarian men. Conversely, the mean MCV value for low ADL-centenarian men was higher than that for healthy centenarian men. There was no difference in any RBC parameter between healthy centenarian women and low ADL-centenarian women. In addition, there was no difference in any RBC parameter between centenarian women living in their own homes and those living in old-aged homes. This study demonstrated the normal ranges of RBC parameters for healthy centenarians, and lower RBC, Hb, and Hct values for low ADL-centenarian men.
                      (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

                      (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Excess iron diminishes the capability of the Pancreas to produce sodium bicarbonate that provides an alkaline enviroment for pancreatin enzymes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I look about 15 year younger than my biological age and I haven't eaten red meat or any other source of mammals or birds for about 24 years now. I eat shitloads of vegetables, plenty of goats/sheeps dairy, oily fish and very limited fructose.
                          F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I think my wrinkles are getting worse than they should be, and I'm eating a lot of red meat. BUT I've had more sun and junk food than most white people could ever imagine, so it's impossible to even pretend to link the two. When I give blood, they never say my iron is high.
                            Crohn's, doing SCD

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                              I look about 15 year younger than my biological age and I haven't eaten red meat or any other source of mammals or birds for about 24 years now. I eat shitloads of vegetables, plenty of goats/sheeps dairy, oily fish and very limited fructose.
                              Ding, ding, ding....I think we have a ^^^winner^^^ my fellow groks.

                              Anybody listening here...Bueller?? Bueller??
                              (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

                              (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                                ... When I give blood, they never say my iron is high.
                                That's not exactly something you should take to the bank, at least with respect to your 'rate of aging'.
                                So as not to repeat myself I'll simply suggest reading the whole thread.
                                (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

                                (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X