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Cholesterol - A Primer (Attempt 2)

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  • #46
    Yes.
    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

    Comment


    • #47
      I want to save this to read later....so much to take in...thanks

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      • #48
        My latest bloodwork:

        Lipid Panel
        Cholesterol 154 mg/dL
        triglycerides 57 mg/dL
        HDL cholesterol 42 mg/dL
        LDL cholesterol 93 mg/dL
        VLDL 11 mg/dL
        TSH 3.28 UIU/mL
        Comprehensive Metabolic
        (non fasting)
        NA+ 139 mmol/L
        K+ 4.3 mmol/L
        tCO2 27 mmol/L
        CL- 103 mmol/L
        GLU 82 mg/dL
        CA 8.0 mg/dL
        BUN 12 mg/dL
        CRE 0.9 mg/dL
        eGFR > 60 mL/min
        ALP 71 U/L
        ALT 23 U/L
        AST 29 U/L
        TBIL 0.6 mg/dL
        ALB 3.9 g/dL
        TP 6.9 g/dL
        Apathy is tyranny's greatest ally.

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        • #49
          griff, heres one for you:
          44yo male, and the doc wants him on lowfat and statins ((

          total: 226
          LDL: 144
          HDL: 66
          trigs: 71
          challenge yourself
          i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by eva View Post
            griff, heres one for you:
            44yo male, and the doc wants him on lowfat and statins ((

            total: 226
            LDL: 144
            HDL: 66
            trigs: 71
            The doctor should be smacked. I assume that LDL was calculated. Have the doctor do a VAP test - is the male in question on the PB or a similar LC diet? Here's the difference between a calculated-by-Friedewald LDL and a calculated-by-Iranian LDL:

            Friedewald: 144
            Iranian: 127

            The Iranian formula is more accurate than the Friedewald one. Additionally, direct measurement of LDL particle size would be instructive. That said, here's the ratios (which are easy, folks - just divide the first number by the second number):

            Total/HDL: 226/66 = 3.42 where 5 or less is optimal for a man
            Trigs/HDL = 71/66 = 1.08 where 2 or less is optimal
            LDL/HDL = 144/66 = 2.18 where 4.3 or less is optimal (or 1.90 with the Iranian equation)

            Trigs/HDL indicates low heart disease risk. What is his doctor smoking? Tell the doctor ABSOLUTELY NOT to statins (and demand that he get up to speed on the current research about cholesterol, especially fat intake and HDL, ratios, and LDL particle sizes).
            Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

            Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


            Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

            My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

            Comment


            • #51
              thanks griff:
              and heres just a successtory i want to share with you:
              80 yo male, been on statins for 40 years (the drugs were prescribed only on the premise of family background ). He quit the statins yesterday after i used the friedwald and iranian calculations (his trigs are around 40) and the ratios and spent about 6 h explaining the science. its never too late. yesterday morning he had a whole egg (with the yolk) for breakfast for the first time in 40 years.
              challenge yourself
              i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #52
                Beautiful. Thanks so much, Griff. I just used this to interpret my first-ever bloodwork results. 7 months primal and the ratios look awesome (even though the report marks my total and LDL as slightly high). Heh.
                Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

                Latest post: Stop Being Stupid

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                • #53
                  Something else that needs to be recognized about the unrealistic cholesterol goals most doctors have for us, that I just realized.

                  Here are the recommended levels for each particle type:

                  Total: 200 or less
                  HDL: 40 or greater (for women), 50 or greater (for men)
                  LDL: 100 or less
                  Triglycerides: 150 or less

                  Now, when they calculate your total cholesterol, they divide your triglycerides by 5. (By the way, I found out why they do that - about 20% of your triglycerides = your VLDL concentration, which is what they're really after - the VLDL. Triglycerides can do other Bad Nasty Things, but they normally only look at its VLDL content.)

                  Simple arithmetic tells us that the individual "ideal" numbers do not add up to the total "ideal" number, thusly:

                  For women: 40 (HDL) + 100 (LDL) + 30 (VLDL - 20% of "ideal" trigylcerides) = 170.
                  For men: 50 (HDL) + 100 (LDL) + 30 (VLDL - 20% of "ideal" trigylcerides) = 180.

                  If you're a low-carber, as nearly all Primals must be of necessity, your HDL will tend to rise while your triglycerides fall. But! Your LDL doesn't necessarily go down; it just changes size from pattern B (bad) to pattern A (neutral). So when you add a higher HDL number to the overall cholesterol count, you can see that an HDL of 80 for a woman or 70 for a man will bump your cholesterol up to the "too high!" number of 200, even if all else remains at the "ideal" level. And if your LDL is up above that "ideal" number of 100, even though it might be below the former "ideal" number of 150, it doesn't take much to put you over the top for the "ideal total" number that they want and expect.

                  If my HDL had already started to rise comparable to the drop I'm having in my triglycerides, my cholesterol would be over 200 instead of 177 and my doctor would be talking about statins.

                  Now, up until about the late 1990s, the "ideal total" was 240 or below. That allowed some reasonable play in your HDL, your LDL and your VLDL without making it damn near impossible to remain within the recommended parameters. Then they found that not enough people were being diagnosed with high cholesterol, thus limiting how many people could be put on statins. So they lowered the number to 200, which is nearly impossible to meet on the SAD.

                  Just some food for thought.
                  Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                  Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                  Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                  My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I have experience with exactly what you've just described. I've eaten low carb for years, and my HDL is always high (75-100), and my trigs are never above 70 and usually about 50. My LDL is usually above the 'ideal' of 100 (perhaps 130), but my high HDL puts the total in the "high" range on lab reports.

                    Doctors bothered me about this for years, and I argued with them and, of course, rejected any mention of statins.

                    Finally, my endo did a VAP test, and my LDL is 100% Pattern A--the good kind, so my LDL number is actually just fine wherever it is.

                    Fast forward 4 months (my endo does bloodwork because I'm hypothyroid and always includes a lipid panel). My LDL was up slightly (about 20 points), and he started lecturing me about getting it down via diet. I reminded him of the VAP results, and he seemed confused for a minute--and he's my best doctor!

                    These guys are so brainwashed by Big Pharma that I think they're afraid they'll have a malpractice suit if someone with high cholesterol isn't on statins!

                    And that may be the next thing that the government tries to mandate.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Just got my blood results back, and the Doctor made lots of useful suggestions like that I should take Statins and cut out the eggs as apparently are " the only dietary source of cholesterol"

                      Cholesterol = 237
                      HDL = 78
                      LDL = 152.1
                      TRIGLYERIDE =35.6

                      Total / HDL = 3.038 (ideal = 5 or below)
                      Trig/HDL = 0.456 (ideal = 2 or below)
                      LDL/HDL = 1.95 (ideal = 4.3 or below)

                      I'm guessing I should decline the statins as I think it all looks good. What do you think Griff?
                      Last edited by andalus; 05-06-2010, 04:08 AM.

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                      • #56
                        Thank you so much Griff for all your research & attention to detail!
                        I just got my bloodwork back from "health fair". In comparing with my results from last yr (when I was a month into converting from vegetarian to primal) here's what I get:
                        2009 | 2010
                        cholesterol 245 | 246
                        HDL 79 | 86
                        LDL (lab's #) 148 | 147
                        Trig 88 | 66
                        total/HDL 3.1 | 2.86
                        Trig/HDL 1.11 | .76
                        LDL/HDL 1.87 | 1.7
                        also, my iron was up (finally!) - that, along with fish oil & glucosomine are the only supplements I take currently.
                        I'm thinking if a doctor wants me to take any medications, I'm gonna tell him/her to suck it.
                        Last edited by Peggy; 05-06-2010, 08:09 AM. Reason: spacing didn't transfer

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by andalus View Post
                          I'm guessing I should decline the statins as I think it all looks good. What do you think Griff?
                          I'd kill for ratios like those. I think you should ask your doctor what he's smoking. And then educate him - get him a copy of The Great Cholesterol Con by Colpo and say "We aren't talking about my cholesterol again until you've read this."
                          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                          Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                          Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                          My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                            I'm thinking if a doctor wants me to take any medications, I'm gonna tell him/her to suck it.
                            I'm right there with ya.
                            Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                            Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                            Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                            My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Griff, thank you so much! My dad just had open heart surgery one month ago, and was put on a low dose statin right after surgery along with BP medication...he's not happy about it because his BP and cholesterol levels aren't even worrisome. He's been asking me for a lot of information on cholesterol and how to raise HDL and lower LDL, and I think he'll get a lot of good information out of this post. I really appreciate it
                              You are what you eat,
                              and what you eat eats too - Michael Pollan

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I discovered I had high cholesterol at the age of 10 and went on a low fat diet for 30+ years til i discovered the myth about 2-3 years ago. I have been on statins for 25 years. I came off them once again three months ago to see where things were and immediately the total shot up as normal over 400. I saw my doc today and he was very upset that i refuse to go back on statins but has promised to read any scientific stuff i give him so i need to get together some good documents.

                                meanwhile my results

                                Total 403
                                Triglycerides 49
                                HDL 62 (this went down 10 )
                                LDL 331

                                Cholesterol/HDL 6.5 (<4.4)
                                LDL/HDL 5.3 (<3.2)

                                then i used griff's iranian method

                                LDL =270 (still high)
                                Total/HDL 4.35 (ideal <4.4)
                                Trig/HDL 0.79 (ideal <2)
                                LDL/HDL 5.3 (ideal <4.3)

                                these aren't perfect but much better and i do not want to go bak on statins. But I would love Griff's thoughts too

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