Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Study shows that Fat Based Diet Reduces Endurance 50 percent!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Study shows that Fat Based Diet Reduces Endurance 50 percent!

    Hi, I searched for the link regarding this site and nothing came up so I thought I would post it. If it's already been discussed please show me where. If it hasn't then it's an excellent article to debate IMHO.

    I'm not really sure how to go about this: Should I just post the link or copy and paste the website?. I'll just post the link --- High-Fat Diet Reduces Endurance

    I was hoping, Mark that you and others could start Tommy gunning this study. (i.e. fill it with holes ) Quick note: the studies was done on those "not furry humans").

    David

  • #2
    well besides the fact they dont mention what kind of fat the rats were eating, 9 days is not enough time for the body to fully adapt to a "fat burning machine"

    its likely if they would have given the study another 9 days the article would be about the magical gains to be found in a high fat diet
    Primal Chaos
    37yo 6'5"
    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
    current 338lbs 49" waist
    goal 240lbs 35" waist

    Comment


    • #3
      them rats had the carb flu.
      And as Mark would say. Rats are not people!
      Integrity is what we do when nobody's watching.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
        well besides the fact they dont mention what kind of fat the rats were eating, 9 days is not enough time for the body to fully adapt to a "fat burning machine"

        its likely if they would have given the study another 9 days the article would be about the magical gains to be found in a high fat diet
        It's likely that the high-fat diet simply isn't as good for a pure endurance athlete when compared to a higher-carbohydrate diet.

        That said, a 50% reduction would mean you hit the wall somewhere around mile 8-12 instead of 16-23. Most people don't do strenuous exercise for an extended enough period for this to become an issue. Unless you're training for a marathon you should be fine(even training for a half you may be OK). Those that do have an issue, can eat a few more sweet potatoes, or other clean carbohydrates.

        As a side note, my n=1 experience is that I PR'ed a 5k back in September, after focusing on strength over endurance, and eating a higher-fat/lower-carb diet for most of the previous couple months. At 5-10k distances, you're not depleting your glycogen stores enough for this to be much of an issue.

        Also, the usual cautionary statements apply about how things that apply to rats may not work quite the same way in humans.
        Last edited by jsa23; 10-25-2011, 07:21 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Funny... I've noticed an IMPROVEMENT in my running endurance
          --Trish (Bork)
          TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
          http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
          FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
            its likely if they would have given the study another 9 days the article would be about the magical gains to be found in a high fat diet
            i'd love to believe that. any studies that support what you are saying, that after around 18 days is when the rats body starts to be able to burn fat more efficiently? if it's well know for example that fat is "unlocked" more efficiently as an energy source at X days, why would the researchers not allow for this time? i'm not implying that you should know of course. i'm new to the forum so i'm not sure how detailed these chats go or if there are scientist in the forum but it does says "Primal research" so i thought it would be important study to look into. Has this study or others like it been discussed already and i'm late to the party?

            Comment


            • #7
              Carb flu means they had to acclimate to burning fat more efficiently? The obvious response is that rats aren't people, sure? But what good is that as far as disproving that fat hinders endurance? I guess where's the study on humans that counters this study? Not trying to be hard on you just trying to arm myself with as much information as possible. Dr. Bork Bork's improved performance is a good start I think.

              Comment


              • #8
                I do think that there is such thing as too little carbohydrate for endurance, but I think the "fat-adaptation" point is valid in this context. There is a neat review of ketogenic diets for physical performance here Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Ketogenic diets and physical performance The first experiment listed doesn't really suit our needs but the second one looks pretty good. Indeed, fat-adaptation appears to be a real phenomenon.

                There might be such thing as too little carbohydrate for athletes long-term, though. It can elevate serum cortisol levels. But I don't think that fat is the bad guy here.
                Last edited by Stabby; 10-25-2011, 09:30 PM.
                Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                Comment


                • #9
                  1) Rats are not furry little people.

                  2) They did not do a long-term study. 9 days is not anywhere near long enough to study long-term effects of diet. It's pretty much a joke actually.

                  3) Rats are not furry little people.

                  When they do this in humans, using whole foods (not lab chow, which is usually made of horrifying ingredients), and test for a period of several months, I will give a damn about what the study says. Until then, it's really not relevant. Not saying the conclusion is necessarily false, just that it can't be drawn with any confidence from this kind of crappy study.
                  Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                  My Primal Journal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                    When they do this in humans, using whole foods (not lab chow, which is usually made of horrifying ingredients), and test for a period of several months, I will give a damn about what the study says. Until then, it's really not relevant. Not saying the conclusion is necessarily false, just that it can't be drawn with any confidence from this kind of crappy study.
                    I appreciate that people are taking the time to post to this however I guess I wasn't really asking about people opinions of how much they cared about the study so much as trying to disprove the conclusion with imperial data. As I posted this clearly to be disproved it can be assumed that the validity is questionable. I was hoping for more than catch phrases. The above quote implies that they have not done this in humans then. Strange. I find that difficult to believe. I'll need to research this some more since no one has sighted anything concrete other than to say that rats are not the same thing as humans about four separate times. Oddly enough in the same breath they say the rats need more time to adjust to diet- like humans - implying that in fact that metabolize similar to humans. Just looking for some studies that would validate the idea that this study is bunk.
                    Last edited by macroniche; 10-26-2011, 08:08 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, sometimes studies of rats and other critters are useful. Sometimes not, because the critters are too far from us.
                      Ancestral Health Info

                      I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                      Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Stabby-now that's a great study. as i was reading about the guy having to eat nothing but meat and fish I had the strongest desire to eat an orange. i'm going to look into those other animal studies they noted at the end of the study. it seemed to say that in highly trained athletes the performance is basically the same. so with that said, why aren't more athletes going with ketogenic diets and then carb loading for super turbo glycogen powered muscles. i realized there is carb loading but it doesn't seem to be on the tail end of a ketogenic diet.
                        Last edited by macroniche; 10-26-2011, 08:09 PM. Reason: typos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As someone who does research and reads it for a good part of my day, let me inject some clarity: The OP is asking for a study, already completed, that "disproves" this study, which is not meaningful at all in the first place.
                          If this study isn't meaningful because a) they studied the wrong mammal (oops!) and b) the study lasted just long enough to not adapt the rats but to really stress them about the dietary change, why does it need to be "disproved" - it doesn't "prove" anything in the first place. In fact, if a study had been done that "proved" that humans given 30 days to adapt, INCREASE their endurance, it wouldn't actually "disprove" a study that found that rats, given 9 days, DECREASE their endurance. Both things can be true.
                          Research is very hard to do well and I do think that non-researchers really have no idea what a tough thing it really is to get right. So I'm sympathetic to the researchers, but journalists need to do a far better job in framing these things for the public.
                          If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by macroniche View Post
                            Stabby-now that's a great study. as i was reading about the guy having to eat nothing but meat and fish I had the strongest desire to eat an orange. i'm going to look into those other animal studies they noted at the end of the study. it seemed to say that in highly trained athletes the performance is basically the same. so with that said, why aren't more athletes going with ketogenic diets and then carb loading for super turbo glycogen powered muscles. i realized there is carb loading but it doesn't seem to be on the tail end of a ketogenic diet.
                            Mark trains some people like this. Sssshhhhh. Seriously.
                            If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
                              Funny... I've noticed an IMPROVEMENT in my running endurance
                              Same

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X