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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
    to be fair i doubt they would have let any fat people on soul train. kind of like that dance show that used to be on mtv, full of beautiful thin people. nothing like what you see at actual dance clubs lol
    Well, okay. But thin now still doesn't equal the thin back in the day. Now even so-called thin folks look puffed up like a sugar pop!
    Positively Radical Pigeonholes are for Pigeons!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
      to be fair i doubt they would have let any fat people on soul train. kind of like that dance show that used to be on mtv, full of beautiful thin people. nothing like what you see at actual dance clubs lol


      Check out 1:07 (If you're old enough to remember Good Times). A couple of other not thin people, but not anything like you see today.
      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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      • #18
        A couple of years ago my partner and I went to Soap Lake in Washington and visited the historical society there. This lake has a very high mineral content and people go there to "take the waters" - it is very warm and healing. They had a lot of pictures up from the 1920's and 30's and almost everybody in the pictures was dressed in bathing attire. We noticed that while there were women of various levels of lean vs plump, NO WOMEN had a fat stomach or a muffin top - they were all gorgeously curved in at the waist, out at the hip - they had beautiful feminine figures, whatever their degree of plumpness. There was not a single obese person in the crowds. The adult women who were not obviously elderly all just looked like the glowing picture of health. (Was it the healing waters, or a diet free from industrially processed foods?)

        When I see young women today, including my nieces who are about 20 years old, they have muffin top bellies. When I see the female college students out jogging near the university, they have belly fat even if they are not obese. They no longer have traditional feminine figures. I recommend you look up old pictures of people at the beach in bathing suits - see what you think - you will able to see their figures and you will be shocked at how much we have changed - even the folks who we wouldn't consider to be fat don't have healthy shapes

        PS - LOVED the soul train thing.
        Hey, I found a site with 4 pages of beach photos from the 1900's - 1920's - I saw one fat man in the entire collection. Thousands of folks cavorting in their swim suits. Lots of very average looking people - no obesity. http://www.barnorama.com/beach-photos-from-the-past/
        Last edited by Barb; 07-27-2011, 09:05 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Barb View Post
          Hey, I found a site with 4 pages of beach photos from the 1900's - 1920's - I saw one fat man in the entire collection. Thousands of folks cavorting in their swim suits. Lots of very average looking people - no obesity. Beach Photos From The Past | Barnorama
          Very interesting. I wondered where this was and then noticed a sign in one of the images "Brady's Baths". If I google that I find a reference to a Brady's Baths in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Would that be where these—or some of them, at any rate—were taken, do you think?

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          • #20
            There is only about 7 years between Angelina Jolie and Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashion. 1 generation. Not a lot of time really but you are right you do see the changes. But then Jennifer, is about the same age, but probably brought up on an American diet (but then she talks about being brought up on Greek food)

            Angelina Jolie's mother was French, that may explain it as well. Different attitudes to nutrition, the french paradox etc.

            We actually were not allowed a lot of sugar when younger. Mum always said 'sugar ruins the shape of your face'.

            Interestingly, my husband is lean, looks great, and is a real clothes horse. He is self conscious because people say he is too thin, and he looks around and everyone is bigger. I have to tell him that he is normal, it is the others that have a problem.

            My other half has returned to Ireland for some work and in our first skype he said I think you are right about food, everyone looks awful here (compared to Italy) he can say that he is Irish.

            All you have to do is look around, and you know something is wrong, but the old pictures really bring it home.
            Life. Be in it.

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            • #21
              1971, Altona Beach Melbourne

              http://www.picturevictoria.vic.gov.a...ages/18971.jpg
              Life. Be in it.

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              • #22
                My 2 youngest daughters and I seem to have strong faces. Even though their jaw structure isn't as strong as mine, they do seem to have stronger faces then most of their friends. My husband and oldest daughter don't seem to have that strong of facial structure except for maybe the nose. Looking at some of the younger women at work, they do seem to have slimmer faces and noses than what I have. Interesting stuff.
                Georgette

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                • #23
                  If you all are interested in how diet and nutrition, as well as birth spacing, affects facial structure - read "Deep Nutrition, Why Our Bodies Need Traditional Foods" by Cate Shanahan. She goes into this at length. She has pictures of a family of about 8 siblings - she lines up all their high school senior photos and you can see the devolution of facial bone structure in the younger born children. The mother's body gets depleted, even on a good diet, and too many and too closely spaced births do not allow the mother time to replenish her stores. I highly recommend this book - she is a geneticist and explains how diet turns our genes on and off and what a good traditional diet does for us.

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                  • #24
                    Yeah, I was thinking about that today. I have a really strong face, broad shoulders and hips. As kids we rarely got sugar, grew most of our own vegetables or bought from roadside stands. Never had fast food. My mother cooked with bacon fat, never bought lean cuts of meat. Also, we weren't allowed to hang out inside when the weather was decent. We were out most of the day, barefoot, dirty, climbing trees and fishing.
                    Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Barb View Post
                      If you all are interested in how diet and nutrition, as well as birth spacing, affects facial structure - read "Deep Nutrition, Why Our Bodies Need Traditional Foods" by Cate Shanahan. She goes into this at length. She has pictures of a family of about 8 siblings - she lines up all their high school senior photos and you can see the devolution of facial bone structure in the younger born children. The mother's body gets depleted, even on a good diet, and too many and too closely spaced births do not allow the mother time to replenish her stores. I highly recommend this book - she is a geneticist and explains how diet turns our genes on and off and what a good traditional diet does for us.
                      I'm the youngest child in my family and am a totally different generation than the older 3 siblings. We all tend to have fairly strrong faces with mine and the oldest probably being the strongest. Third oldest sis has the softest/thinnest looking face yet she still has the strong nose. My oldest is 23 months older than my middle daughter and my middle and youngest daughters are 11.5 months apart. The oldest seems to have the softer face from the other 2 as she genetically takes after her fathers side more with my looks. Big head, fat cheeks, yet she picked up the nose from me. My younger 2 have stronger looking faces with the middle daughter having a very slim face with the strong nose. The youngest has very sharp features.
                      Georgette

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                      • #26
                        I often notice very large mothers with elfin-like small children—the contrast is striking. So these are young women, but they clearly have a bad case of metabolic syndrome. Sometimes you'll see them pass a large sweetmeat of some sort—say, a damn great biscuit the size of an espresso coffee saucer—to the kid, often with some kind of boxed drink as well ... and you know it's only a matter of time before the diet catches up with the kid. So sad.

                        The current situation seems to be that it's taking a few years for the food to catch up to the children.

                        It would be an interesting exercise to look at a few photographs of current kindergarten children or children in the early years of schooling. I think most would be still look normal, but a few even of those would look rather too rounded and the situation would just get worse further up the school.

                        I tried googling "reception class"—that's the name used in Britain for the children in the youngest class of formal schooling. This is what they call "rising five"—i.e., they will be five in the school year in which they start, so they're actually four-and-a-bit. *

                        Most children of this age seem to look normal in the recent pictures I found—but not all even so young. This picture was taken in 2007:




                        _____________________

                        * Off topic, there's a huge issue here about the (I would say insane) current practice in Britain and some other countries of starting forced learning so young. I think most of the Scandinavian countries don't start the children on that till seven. The children would be far healthier—in all senses of the word—playing, and running about outside. Here's just one issue: some will probably develop semi-permanent distortions to their posture from trying to write when their coordination is not sufficiently developed to allow them to do so comfortably. Walk in a reception class and watch them writing in appallingly twisted and asymmetrical postures.

                        Robert Carlyle in the film The Full Monty. Look how lop-sided he is!



                        Who knows but that might have begun with a corkscrewed writing posture at four?
                        Last edited by Lewis; 07-28-2011, 10:31 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                          One thing Price noted was that in those on their traditional diets, family resemblances were very strong, even extending throughout an ethnicity to the extent that people of the same ethnicity but on different remote islands looked like siblings. But once nutrition became poor, family resemblances were much more random, and people tended to look more like others with their own particular facial weakness than members of their own family.
                          MamaGrok - I find this very interesting... b/c when I look at pictures of dd - two ppl stand out in her face my cousin and grandmother. yes dd is my "mini me" but as shes growing I'm beginning to think she got my grandmother's nose...(and the majority of her facial expressions are my cousin's and grandmothers too) in todays view point her nose would be consider bulbous - when its just a larger button nose, wide spaced eyes - in general a well porpotioned face. DS has nice proportioned face as well... and DH IMO has a nice strong face - through probably not as strong as harrison ford/sean conery/daniel craig. I probably also have a strong face - as I'm not drop dead beautiful - but ppl tell me when I smile - I knock their socks off...

                          I wonder if all those weak jaws - is a result of formula feeding, instead of bfing? lack of nutrients and crainofacial development nursing provides? ds 100% bf, where as dd b/c she could nurse received all the emb I could pump + formula... though she wouldn't take a bottle until 13wks - she was finger fed the first 12wks... We definately keep sugar out of the kids diets at home ( we don't have as much control at dcp - which mean the kids are getting more than I'd ever give them of sugar at dcp)
                          The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose. ~ Ayn Rand
                          What's your purpose? Mine is Optimal Health.

                          Converted to PB November 2010
                          SW 190lb
                          Leptin Reset Redux (1Sep 2011) SW 170lbs
                          25 Sep 2011 160lbs
                          1 Dec 2011 158lbs!
                          GW ~135lbs
                          5'3"
                          Mother of 2, and wife to a kick ass husband...trying to contain chaos and havoc on a daily basis

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Barb View Post
                            The mother's body gets depleted, even on a good diet, and too many and too closely spaced births do not allow the mother time to replenish her stores.
                            Sounds like a good book, Barb. Yes, it takes more than a good diet - it takes a superb one. Price found that among traditional peoples all over the world, the groups themselves were already eating a 100% unprocessed diet, but they fed even more super nutrient-dense foods to the men and women prior to conception, and to the pregnant and nursing women. And (nearly? I don't remember if there were exceptions) all spaced 2.5 - 3.5 years apart, which is the biological norm when following ecological breastfeeding.

                            Shijin, sadly, breastfeeding is enough. Now that I know what to look for, I can look back to my children's infant pictures and see the weak chins from birth in several of them. They were all breastfed for at least 2 years, some 3.5, all without a single drop of formula ever, and bottles of expressed milk only used in the oldest. I've been looking for evidence that nutrition *after* birth could help improve facial structure, but I haven't seen anything but one anecdotal story so far. I don't know if there's any hope for the very weak facial structure all but the oldest have or not.


                            I'm seeing fat little ones all over the place now. So, so sad.
                            5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                            Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                            Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                            Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                            ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                            • #29
                              We noticed that while there were women of various levels of lean vs plump, NO WOMEN had a fat stomach or a muffin top - they were all gorgeously curved in at the waist, out at the hip - they had beautiful feminine figures, whatever their degree of plumpness.
                              don't forget that practically every woman in those days wore foundational undergarments - girdles and such......

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by primarilyprimal View Post
                                don't forget that practically every woman in those days wore foundational undergarments - girdles and such......
                                In the pictures I was referring to, the people were all wearing bathing suits - so no corsets, you could really see the shape of their figures.

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