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  • The more I learn, the more I am confused

    I'm about one week into a partial Primal experiment with enjoyment and success. There are several parts of it that I already followed--veggies, certain meats, eggs... I've started the Fit portion and I love it and I have been gradually trying to rid my daily life of the processed crap available at every turn. PB makes so much sense to me (I've read the book twice and have been on MDA frequently), yet the more I read and learn about it, I must admit that the more confused I get (maybe CW and tradition has me in a firm headlock!). The latest is this: [URL="http://www.annals.org/content/153/5/289.abstract"]

    It is frustrating to me that scientists (who supposedly are so dang smart and definitely smarter than me!) seem to come to such different conclusions... why can it not be so much simpler?!

    Another confusing point (Grains). I am LDS (Mormon) and have been a consumer of whole grains my entire life (I LOVE them and don't think I have a problem with gluten--I get a clean bill of health from my doc and am just slightly overweight looking to get leaner and more healthy), especially wheat and oats. I may Grok you on the head with a rock if you try and take my oats away! Anyway, it seems there is research and individual results to validate or invalidate philosophies.

    I'm specifically curious if there are any other LDS "all grain is good for the food of man--wheat for man" people out there who have perspective on this subject. I am very open-minded and looking for responsible comments, not judgments. I already have informed people telling me that I'm in a cult (LDS) and now I will be joining a second cult (PB). Give me a break...

    Any thoughts from other LDS (or non-LDS) PBers?

  • #2
    Excess weight is far from the only health problem grains will give you, particularly as you age. Google 'phytates'.
    The Primal Journey of Mr and Mrs Fist
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    • #3
      Just take it slow. I know I have seen posts on here from people of Asian background, and the idea of giving up rice was...well, unthinkable. I realize race and religion aren't quite interchangeable, but I think you see what I am getting at. If you're someone who can handle transitioning gradually, I think that's your answer. You also might want to try giving up grains for a specific amount of time, and see how you feel. Everyone is different. I never would have thought that giving up grains would be the key to solving so many problems for me. Once I gave them up, I felt so much better, I didn't want to go back!
      With Mark's help, I've conquered depression, acne, rosacea, scale obsession, migraines, and lethargy. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

      http://www.theladygrok.blogspot.com/

      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread8215.html

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Primal Fist View Post
        Excess weight is far from the only health problem grains will give you, particularly as you age. Google 'phytates'.
        Agree.

        Sgalley2, start by eliminating wheat and doing as much of primal as you can. Keep oats if you have to. Google for a Nurturing Traditions recipe. (Soaking the oats overnight in something that neutralizes the phytic acid.)

        Some diets are very rigid. Mark is realistic and he keeps refining PB. So it isn't as cut and dried. Do what you can.
        Ancestral Health Info

        I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

        Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Primal Diva View Post
          I realize race and religion aren't quite interchangeable, but I think you see what I am getting at.
          Not race - culture. I know Hispanics who are loath to give up their rice and beans, and Italians who can't fathom giving up pasta. Religions create food cultures, too... and this is one of the most damaging things about religion generally. Of course, as Gary Taubes says in his current book, nutrition science is more religion than science, because it's clinging to beliefs that are not only not supported by evidence but actually contradicted by evidence, so it's not surprising that we should see this pattern replicated elsewhere.
          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

          Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


          Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

          My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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          • #6
            I made a link on my blog to another long post about why gluten might kill you. Resign yourself to giving up the grains and work towards it as fast as you can.
            Odille
            F 58 / 170cms / SW 131.5 kgs / Current 112.4/ GW 65
            following Primal Lifestyle and swimming my way to health

            My Primal Blog / Photo Blog / RedBubble shop / My Calendars / My Facebook

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            • #7
              Hi fellow Utonian!
              I'm with Primal Diva. give yourself a specific timeframe to go without your oats and see how you feel or if you really miss them. Most of the time I think people cling to a certian type of food because of what it is supposed to represent (i.e. oats= cold days+winter ) I love soups and stew in the winter for just that reason...
              If after that timeframe you feel that you still have to have them then, go for it. In the end you have to do what works for you. (if you do decide that you still need them i would def. recomend soaking them first).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Primal Diva View Post
                Just take it slow. I know I have seen posts on here from people of Asian background, and the idea of giving up rice was...well, unthinkable. I realize race and religion aren't quite interchangeable, but I think you see what I am getting at. If you're someone who can handle transitioning gradually, I think that's your answer. You also might want to try giving up grains for a specific amount of time, and see how you feel. Everyone is different. I never would have thought that giving up grains would be the key to solving so many problems for me. Once I gave them up, I felt so much better, I didn't want to go back!
                I agree. I thought I could never give up my morning oatmeal. I kept eating it (albeit with less and less oats and more and more eggs added to it) for the first two months on primal. Then Mark asked during the challenge month "How are you spending your 20%" and I answered "On oatmeal". As soon as I hit submit, I realized how crazy it was that I was using ALL of my 20% on one thing. So I quit it that day, and haven't eaten any since. Turns out, bacon, eggs, onions, and tomatoes are far more enlivening for breakfast. Can't fathom returning to bland oatmeal!
                Liz.

                Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
                Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sgalley2 View Post

                  I'm specifically curious if there are any other LDS "all grain is good for the food of man--wheat for man" people out there who have perspective on this subject. I am very open-minded and looking for responsible comments, not judgments. I already have informed people telling me that I'm in a cult (LDS) and now I will be joining a second cult (PB). Give me a break...

                  Any thoughts from other LDS (or non-LDS) PBers?
                  Conflicting information surrounds us at every turn. Who do you believe? Who is telling the TRUTH and how can we be sure? I was in your shoes and was very confused about all the Nutrition BS out there.

                  HERE IS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY! Cardiologist Dr. Wm Davis. He has an active practice treating heart disease & diabetes patients and he shares his findings with the world at his blog. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that grains & sugars are devastating to our health after you read his blog. I have all of his most important blog entries below. Read his quotes and you will never eat bread, grains & sugars again.

                  Dr. Davis is the one who motivated us to go on the Paleo diet. Within 8 weeks, the wife had last her last 15 lbs and is now at her perfect weight of 130 lbs, her blood pressure is normal for the 1st time on 30 years, and she fits into clothing she has saved since 1970s. THANK GOD FOR DR. DAVIS !

                  See the links below,
                  Grizz
                  Last edited by Grizz; 01-02-2011, 04:23 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Hey sgalley2, I am an ex-LDS member. I am sure it will be tough giving up the breads and grains for you, but you can do it. However, I guess you will always have to consume the bread each Sunday during sacrament. But that's just one small crumb, which could hardly amount to anything. Otherwise, like most are saying, take it step by step. If you eat any boxed up processed foods, start there. Once you get rid of those, then giving up whole grains and oats won't seem so hard. I will say that I have never felt better since giving up all the grains. I am almost 40 now, and I wish I had done it much sooner. I feel great now though.

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                    • #11
                      Religion is not a good source for scientific information (among other things)

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                      • #12
                        Another discussion here http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mal+christians that gets into the meaning of "bread."

                        This word is a bad translation taken too literally IMO. I've never read the book the friendly LDS's on the subway gave me so many years ago but perhaps this misinterpretation is at the heart of the LDS take on this.
                        Wheat is the new tobacco. Spread the word.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sgalley2 View Post
                          PB makes so much sense to me (I've read the book twice and have been on MDA frequently), yet the more I read and learn about it, I must admit that the more confused I get (maybe CW and tradition has me in a firm headlock!). The latest is this: [URL="http://www.annals.org/content/153/5/289.abstract"]

                          It is frustrating to me that scientists (who supposedly are so dang smart and definitely smarter than me!) seem to come to such different conclusions... why can it not be so much simpler?!
                          Because that's how science works. Scientists never get definite answers (and simple answers are usually wrong). We get "what works now, with the information and measurement tools we have available, with the understanding that we could be wrong because there's stuff out there we can't measure or don't know how to measure or don't even know that we should be measuring yet." There are no measurement tools that can reliably measure, for example, the existence of ghosts. That doesn't mean that ghosts don't exist. That just means that as a scientist, I have to assume that ghosts don't exist until I can show evidence that they do, evidence that stands up to repeated testing by other people as well as me. That's what science is.

                          Hard-and-fast, absolute answers aren't available from scientific investigation. Working answers are. To be a scientist, you must get comfortable with never being completely sure that you're right about something and being willing to keep your mind open to other possible answers, while at the same time operating on the assumption that the answers you've gotten are good enough to work with and within until that time.

                          One of the main issues with nutrition and public health in the last forty to sixty years is precisely that people have been clinging to an unsupported dogma about food and what's good for us and what's not, without any evidence and with minimal testing (because when tested, current CW nutrition does not stand up to evidence in any way, shape, or form). Now, is the PB 100% right? Maybe. It's likely, since so many people have had such wonderful success on it. But is it 100% certain? No, because nothing ever is.
                          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                          Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                          Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                          My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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                          • #14
                            I grew up LDS and I currently live in SLC. While I'm no longer a practicing member of any religion, I certainly understand the Mormon culture. Two years ago I was diagnosed with celiac disease and that was that as far as wheat, Rye, and barley were concerned. I simply did not have a choice other than give them up. After my diagnosis, several of my family members were also tested and, as it turned out, celiac disease was running wild in my family. Most of my family is still very active in the LDS church and they are all gluten free and several of them are turning toward this lifestyle as it just seems to make them feel better and look better. My parents, who are not celiac but gluten intolerant, cheat once per week with the sacrament. Other than that, they are totally gluten free. There is nothing in the LDS faith that requires you to eat grain. It may be part of the community and the culture, but as far as the faith goes, you are free and clear to make your own choice and treat your body like a temple instead of like a garbage dump.

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                            • #15
                              hw1178: I appreciate you (and all of the others, too!) taking the time to share your insight and perspective--thank you very much.

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