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    Hi all,
    Last edited by MyBodyMyTemple; 01-26-2011, 11:36 AM.

  • #2
    Check how you feel.

    I’m currently undergoing a 30 day “cleanse” where I’m going to eat a very clean primal diet, comprised of meats veggies fruits and eggs. I don’t typically consume nuts, and my dairy sources were only heavy cream and butter which I’m not consuming for right now.

    To be honest, I only feel crappy when I have a LOT of either grains or sugar (dairy has never made me feel physically bad, but we’ll see once I reintroduce it)

    - If I have a lot of grains (like more than one slice of pizza) I get very very tried and groggy, but mostly just very physically tired.
    - If I had a high concentration of sugar (like a standard size bag of skittles) I become nauseous and usually get a headache, I’ve thrown up as a result of too much sugar.

    These are things that I’ve experimented with either purposely or just cus they were around or in a moment of weakness, but they happen every time without fail.

    Other grains don’t have such a serious impact. I can have some white rice, or even some bread and feel okay. Again, dairy doesn’t seem to do anything detrimental to me but then again I don’t just drink milk, I only add small amounts to food or drink.

    If your concern is having to completely eliminate grains and dairy what I’m saying is you don’t absolutely have to depending on your needs. I should have stated that I’m a healthy individual with no history of diabetes or any present ailment. Some folks here DO have to completely get rid of gut allergens and other such triggers.

    Final word, I do believe complete abstinence from grains is a step towards better health, there’s just nothing “essential” about them at all. If it’s carbs you’re after there’s way better choices.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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    • #3
      Do what works for you. Some people live to a ripe old age eating grains with no complaint. Even in losing weight I think that some people do better trying to reduce carbs and for others fat is a better choice. There is no one lifestyle that will work for everyone.
      http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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      • #4
        Try one plan for a year, then switch to the other plan for a year. You have a whole lifetime to experiment, so you have time to give each plan a really thorough chance. I don't believe eating grains for one year will kill you, neither will abstaining from grains for one year. It's what you do over a lifetime that matters.
        Liz.

        Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
        Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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        • #5
          I'd like to know what was compelling in the argument about needing grains and dairy.

          That aside, everyone above has made the correct point, which is essentially to "listen to your body." Why not eat clean primal for a long period of time, then eat some grains and see how you feel.

          Originally posted by MyBodyMyTemple View Post
          I'm at the point when I am going to fully commit or put it away.
          I don't really understand why you're making it such an all-or-nothing situation. It seems like what you are really looking for is an answer to the last 10 lbs...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lcme View Post
            I'd like to know what was compelling in the argument about needing grains and dairy.
            Me too. As far as I know, there is no nutrient in grain that is not more plentiful and more bioavailable in vegetables. And while dairy may contain some good nutrition, it also makes a lot of people sick. There is no NEED for either.

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            • #7
              I haven't read "Intuitive Eating," but I do know that it is kind of like the Bible of the fat acceptance movement. To me that indicates that it doesn't talk about the detrimental value of any foods because it doesn't want to shame people for eating them or create a diet/deprivation mentality--not because of what's actually scientifically optimal for your body. Ultimately, though, it is up to you to try it out. I would recommend going a whole month without grains or sugar, adding them back in, and then seeing how you feel.

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              • #8
                Like others, I'd love to hear what the author thinks grains offer that veggies/fruit don't.

                My take is that no matter what macronutrients balances work best for someone individually, as carb sources go? It's tough to justify displacing yummy, nutritious vegetables and fruit with an equivalent pile of grain calories.
                "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                • #9
                  I agree on the testing approach, with one caveat. There is good science to show that grains, particularly gluten containing ones are biologically bad for you. That is, you can measure the effects in the vast majority of people. It's not a theory, it's a fact, whereas this sounds like a theory to me.
                  My primal journal
                  You might find these handy: Free gluten free restaurant cards in 50+ languages
                  In Praise of the Primal Lifestyle

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                  • #10
                    I love the idea of intuitive eating. However, over time, I have noticed, if I eat how I want, I ALWAYS eat more than my body needs and I put on weight. I put this down to the fact that I over eat becuase I just love to eat or its it becuase ( and I think this is why) grains and sugar make me crazy with cravings AND have bought into the all or nothing mentality. The only time I've lost it was restriced eating, lots of running and what I now know to be IF. Back then I was basically eating primal and didn't know it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by racingsnake View Post
                      I agree on the testing approach, with one caveat. There is good science to show that grains, particularly gluten containing ones are biologically bad for you. That is, you can measure the effects in the vast majority of people. It's not a theory, it's a fact, whereas this sounds like a theory to me.
                      No, it sounds like an hypothesis. Theories have been tested and shown to work. Hypotheses have not yet been tested.

                      Sorry to nitpick, but the distinction is important.
                      Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                      Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                      Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                      My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MyBodyMyTemple View Post
                        Hi all,

                        I have been on and off primal eating for about five months now. I'm at the point when I am going to fully commit or put it away. My struggle to decide comes from after reading a book called "Intuitive Eating." The book discusses many things, but one is how our bodies need grains and dairy. How the author's describes our needs for grains and dairy makes sense to me. However, I have read many many articles on this website, and they make sense to me too! I'm stuck in the middle. I
                        Evolution makes sense to me.


                        K



                        iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cillakat View Post
                          Evolution makes sense to me.


                          K
                          Ditto.

                          In terms of how one should eat, I tend to apply a fairly simple rule of thumb: Is it edible in its raw form? If yes, then it is probably ok, because it's been around long enough for humanity to have evolved to process it properly even in pre-technological times, where technology is used here to refer to such esoteric things as fire. If no, then beware.

                          Applying this rule: meat, check, veggies, check, fruit, check, grains ... colossal fail. I cannot recall the last time I went by a field of wheat and felt compelled to run into it and start gorging. In the interest of empiricism, you may wish to try this with raw wheat or rice and tell me whether you think it is a fundamental or essential part of the human diet. I am exaggerating a bit here, since we have culturally deemed meat to need cooking, but from a physiological perspective this is untrue. With respect to grains, however, cooking and or further processing is essential for assimilation.

                          With this one basic rule, simplistic though it may be, you could get along quite well from a dietary perspective.

                          Note that "raw" means in a form commonly found in nature, not merely uncooked. This definition serves to define fruit juice, for example, as unnatural, because in nature, juices come packaged with rinds, pulp, seeds, fiber all of which are disposed of in the juicing process. This definition also relegates all refined carbohydrates to the dietary trash heap. Refining is unnatural, it is an industrial process. The amount of sugar cane that one would need to eat in order to extract the amount of sucrose present in one bag of sugar is staggering.

                          If you want to refine your approach ( that's a feeble pun, by the way ), the next question to apply is: Is this food seasonal? If no, then you can eat it whenever you want, otherwise, you need to be careful. With this rule in mind, fruits and vegetables are not a home run, as both are seasonal. Consequently, when you walk into a supermarket where you can have fruit 24/7, 365, this is a distortion of conditions that humanity would have evolved to handle.

                          So, to come full circle with this, applying these questions to grains, they fail on both counts: they are inedible in their raw form, and they are seasonal, so at best you should only eat them at limited times during the course of a year.
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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                          • #14
                            I'm kinda sad that MBMT never came back to this thread. Not that I want to jump all over the OP or anything, I'm just always curious as to why.

                            So I read that section of the book online. I can't copy paste so I'll summarize.

                            The grains section introduces itself by declaring the food pyramid the latest set of healthy eating guidelines from the government. (so basically an appeal to authority approach?)

                            Then it goes on to say the best kind of fuel is complex carbs found in grains. (so... The slightly slower process of turning starch into sugar, in the absence of other redeeming factors like vitamins in fruit, renders them healthy? Mmmkay...)

                            They then state that chronic dieters and other Americans tend to fall below the gov't recommended six servings a day (really!) and don't be afraid of them. Casually bashes low-carb approaches in passing.

                            ... Yah okay so basically there is nothing here that makes me less "afraid" of grains.

                            They go on to declare protein overrated and, in a section called "gentle nutrition", tells that beans have special nutritional qualities. (apparently the presence of fiber is the #1 thing making grains and beans good...)

                            And the argument for dairy is calcium.

                            Okay, enough of that. I was hoping to at least see some kind of new spin, but to me this looks like very, very standard CW dieter recommendations... The same ones people have been following during decades of the entire country getting heavier.

                            While I acknowledge that CW dieting does work for some through sheer willpower, it clearly doesn't for everyone and this book doesn't say anything new on that front other than don't be afraid and we always pull our clients off of low-carb diets. Also even aside from weight loss, completely fails to address any insulin or immunological concerns. (at least in this section)
                            Last edited by Jenny; 11-27-2010, 07:49 AM.
                            "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                            • #15
                              Have been trolled.

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