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How Herd Immunity Works (and Why Anti-Vaccination Is Dangerous)

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  • How Herd Immunity Works (and Why Anti-Vaccination Is Dangerous)

    Great video about vaccination and the benefits of herd immunity: http://2.ly/cuu9
    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
    "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

  • #2
    Go, go, go, get your vaccinations!
    I'm gonna pass on most, thanks.

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    • #3
      Flu vaccine is controversial, I suppose, but get the kids vaccinated! Between my 3rd and 4th year of med school the Hib vaccine came into common use. At the time it was the number one cause of meningitis in kids. 3rd year - lots of kids admitted with meningitis - permanent hearing loss and brain damage would often ensue. 4th year - very few cases overall, NO Hib cases. Cases that did come in were strep pneumo (now there's a vaccine for that!!). Similar story from rotavirus vaccine and deaths/hospital admissions for GI rotavirus infections - rotavirus vaccine came out two years ago. No kid in the first world should have meningitis, brain damage, or die from a rotavirus infection!! Get your kids vaccinated!!!!

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      • #4
        Perhaps if our kids are not eating the crap promoted by CW (also promoting vaccines), their immune systems would be capable of fighting these horrible diseases targeted by vaccines.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Piscator View Post
          Perhaps if our kids are not eating the crap promoted by CW (also promoting vaccines), their immune systems would be capable of fighting these horrible diseases targeted by vaccines.
          Perhaps. But that's a whopper of an untested theory.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Piscator View Post
            Perhaps if our kids are not eating the crap promoted by CW (also promoting vaccines), their immune systems would be capable of fighting these horrible diseases targeted by vaccines.
            +1
            "The power that made the body HEALS the body" - B.J. Palmer

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Piscator View Post
              Perhaps if our kids are not eating the crap promoted by CW (also promoting vaccines), their immune systems would be capable of fighting these horrible diseases targeted by vaccines.
              uh, good in theory except it's incorrect. While we'll be healthier and have better functioning immune systems, remember that in that mythical environment of evolutionary adaptation and all primal environments since then, children *routinely*, commonly and regularly died in infancy and childhood due to disease. And they were eating 'optimal' diets.

              Any anthropolgist who's spent time in the field has seen the devastation of disease - even in primal peoples eating optimal diets.

              Don't fool yourselves.

              I've seen superhealthy, primal modern peeps (my daughter included) fight pertussis, HiB, strep pneumonia and more.

              The risks of vaccines can be likely mitigated by optimizing D. All the time. Every day.



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              • #8
                I'm just looking at the mythical world where people are healthier today, now that kids get dozens of vaccines, than we were even 20 or 30 years ago. I don't have any data to back up that observation - it's just an observation. But... are we and our kids really healthier now?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Piscator View Post
                  I'm just looking at the mythical world where people are healthier today, now that kids get dozens of vaccines, than we were even 20 or 30 years ago. I don't have any data to back up that observation - it's just an observation. But... are we and our kids really healthier now?
                  healthier in general? good heavens no. But there is health (which is what people create through diet and habits and sufficient vitamin D supplementation).

                  Then there is the separate issue of vaccine efficacy.

                  Have vaccines been effective at reducing deaths from pertussis, diptheria, HiB, rotavirus, meningitis and more?

                  That would be an unequivocal yes.



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                  • #10
                    Well, fortunately we are still free to choose. I don't imagine this will last though.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Piscator View Post
                      Well, fortunately we are still free to choose. I don't imagine this will last though.
                      If you want to risk your children's health to make a political point, be sure to ignore laws on seat belts, too.

                      A healthy immune system doesn't necessarily mean kids won't get sick. Even if their baseline health keeps them alive, surviving meningitis is no picnic.

                      I think that the point of the primal blueprint is to blend the good from the past -- which was a diet and lifestyle that promoted health and longevity for the favored few who managed to live long enough to make that an issue -- with the good from today to create an optimally healthy life. Primal man had precious few defenses against infectious diseases and accidental death. We do, and we can provide those to our children.

                      Fortunately, your kids will likely benefit from the herd immunity that modern medicine has created.
                      Last edited by ann112358; 09-07-2010, 09:04 AM. Reason: typo

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                      • #12
                        I'm in favor of not vaccinating. Long term it will help bring the ridiculous human population under control. "Healthy" kids who manage to fight off the invaders will spread the diseases to weaker kids, kids whose vaccines fail, and kids with malfunctioning immune systems who can't be vaccinated. If all healthy children were vaccinated, then not only they but all those other kids would be protected too, and there would be no check on the number of humans on earth.

                        Personally I will continue getting vaccines as needed (not much now that I'm an adult) because I don't want to die stupid; I wear a seatbelt and a bike helmet too.

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                        • #13
                          Seriously?

                          I suspect you don't have children. Lucky them.

                          But why pick on kids if you want to reduce population? Imagine how parents will feel when their kid, in whom they've invested so much time and money, dies (slowly and painfully) of an easily preventable disease. Forced sterilization would be far more efficient. Or maybe we should close the emergency rooms and let nature take its course. That would have the advantage of spreading the death rate over all age demographics and would save a ton of money, too.

                          Your callousness is breathtaking.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ann112358 View Post
                            If you want to risk your children's health to make a political point, be sure to ignore laws on seat belts, too.
                            Nice judgmental attitude - maybe there's a vaccine for that. Don't worry, it's completely pc; this attitude goes along perfectly with the erosion of civil liberties - the moral superiority which gives rise to dictating personal behaviors as they relate to health. Hang on, and maybe you'll be called on when our leaders decide to change diet guidelines to mandates. What do you mean, you don't agree with eating 10 servings of grains? Everybody knows that's the responsible, healthy thing to do.

                            Wait a minute: if you're here, Ann112358, you're probably ignoring the food pyramid, yet you think vaccinations are perfectly justified. Maybe I should just consult with you, so I'll know which government recommendations I should follow and which are safe to ignore. So you're saying I SHOULD use seatbelts?

                            My issue with vaccinations isn't political, it's grounded in a mistrust of the establishment that's promoting them; the medical establishment which includes the AMA, the FDA, the pharmaceutical companies and the whole protectionist racket surrounding it. The FDA has pulled more than a dozen very dangerous drugs since '77, AFTER approval and charges user fees to pharmaceutical companies who are attempting to get drug approval. Hmmm. This is part of the same establishment who has reworked the food pyramid to its current state and look at all the wondrous benefits we've gained from that. So, you want me to trust that and if I don't, I'M endangering kids?

                            I respect Cillakat, as she seems very knowledgeable about a wide-range of health topics. However, I respectfully disagree with her assertion that vaccinations have absolutely reduced deaths from disease. You give a vaccination and that recipient doesn't get the disease, that doesn't mean the vaccination worked. Maybe that person wouldn't have got the disease anyway. Increasing vaccinations rates and decreasing deaths from these vaccines may be correlated, but maybe not.

                            I'll choose to err on the side of mistrust. I think it's well earned.

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                            • #15
                              I'm not saying you should use seatbelts or get a flu vaccine or anything else. You're an adult and in charge of your life. But, yes I do get judgmental when it comes to endangering children. Everyone has the right to make decisions on their children's behalf, but I think they also have the obligation not to make those decisions based on politics -- and yes, all of your statements sound political to me, but maybe I'm using the term more broadly than you. Philosophy, not party.

                              Erring on the side of mistrust is just as intellectually deficient as erring on the side of trust. Both camps let their assumptions get in the way of clear thought. For example: "You give a vaccination and that recipient doesn't get the disease, that doesn't mean the vaccination worked. Maybe that person wouldn't have got the disease anyway. Increasing vaccinations rates and decreasing deaths from these vaccines may be correlated, but maybe not." That's willful disregard of facts that don't fit your worldview. I don't see much difference between that and the "cheeseburger is a heart attack on a bun" attitude.

                              Mistrust is not the same as not trusting.... Mistrust assumes the worst. But there's no basis for assuming the worst. There's a whole lot of good stuff out there, from the government and from corporations. Only the bad stuff gets press. You can cite example after example of errors on the part of government, greed on the part of corporations, and stupidity on the part of both, but they are run by human beings -- yes, government employees and corporate CEOs are all people and subject to the same errors of judgment, brilliance, moral ambivalence, moral superiority, evil, altruism, fear, greed, hope and, mostly, confusion, that the rest of us are.

                              The FDA pulled thalidomide before it hit US pharmacies.... and spent the next 30 years erring on the side of just saying no to drugs... until they realized that people were dying because they were holding up too many good drugs... at which point they started fast-tracking too many..... hey, it goes on and on, that's the way it works. Those who expect more will be perpetually disappointed or enraged.

                              I know, I know, it's not paranoia if someone really is out to get you..... but usually it's paranoia.

                              Ann

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