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Bacon Lovers vs. Soy Huggers: The Smackdown

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  • Bacon Lovers vs. Soy Huggers: The Smackdown

    Article from a dyed-in-the-wool vegetarian on which is better for the environment, eating meat or being a vegetarian. Some interesting points all around.
    http://motherjones.com/environment/2...he-environment

  • #2
    Interesting points all around. Definitely makes me want to commit to being more sustainable; for me, that's in the form of grass-fed beef and pastured animals, etc.
    Because if you didn't know, of that is life made: only of moments; Don't lose the now.
    ~Borges

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    • #3
      what i dislike about this kind of debate is that most people generally assume the current way of manufacturing meat is the only way to do it. Sustainable, organic, grass-fed beef - that doesn't fuck up the world. The issue here, as with almost everything in the food world is that it's all run by large corporations who have only one policy - maximum profits. It's the ultimate downfall of capitalism - it values only one thing - profits - whereas people have values besides only money. The system does not reflect our values. Unfortunately it's going to get much, much worse before it gets better IMO.

      Change the way farms are run - from multinationals back to family-run farms and decent regulations and watch all that environmental destruction come to a screeching halt. You'll also see the end of super-cheap beef. And that is no bad thing.

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      • #4
        Your only power against the people who run feedlots is what you do with your dollars.

        If you can find local producers, and are willing to pay them enough that they can support themselves, every dollar changes the balance from soy/corn and all the rest of it to decent local pasture farms.

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        • #5
          Change the way farms are run - from multinationals back to family-run farms and decent regulations and watch all that environmental destruction come to a screeching halt. You'll also see the end of super-cheap beef. And that is no bad thing.
          I always considered raising the price of food and creating malnutrition a bad thing.

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          • #6
            creating malnutrition? have you seen all the fatties and people walking around with chronic health problems out there - especially in the USA? Malnutrition's already a defacto standard, and nowhere more so than than the US.

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            • #7
              So raising the price of meat will help that?

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              • #8
                Oh my gooooddd the comments. Such an overload of brainwashed vegetarians denying every pro-meat claim (although I agree the dude's article wasn't very scientific), extolling the virtues of vegetarianism, and massively upvoting each others' comments.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cemdev View Post
                  what i dislike about this kind of debate is that most people generally assume the current way of manufacturing meat is the only way to do it. Sustainable, organic, grass-fed beef - that doesn't fuck up the world. The issue here, as with almost everything in the food world is that it's all run by large corporations who have only one policy - maximum profits. It's the ultimate downfall of capitalism - it values only one thing - profits - whereas people have values besides only money. The system does not reflect our values. Unfortunately it's going to get much, much worse before it gets better IMO.
                  Change the way farms are run - from multinationals back to family-run farms and decent regulations and watch all that environmental destruction come to a screeching halt. You'll also see the end of super-cheap beef. And that is no bad thing.
                  I too fear the days of Geidi Prime.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by trapperjohnme View Post
                    I always considered raising the price of food and creating malnutrition a bad thing.
                    Feedlot beef is artificially cheap. Taxpayers subsidize them, for instance, to help the farms pay for giant manure storage contraptions so that the poisonous feedlot manure doesn't poison the surrounding groundwater. Get rid of the feedlot beef & you get rid of the subsidies, so taxpayers have more $$ in their pockets to begin with to buy their food.

                    EVERYone pays for feedlot beef, even though we don't see the price higher at the grocery store. Remember - the "low" price is artificially low; someone (you) is paying for it.
                    5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                    Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                    Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                    Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                    ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gini View Post
                      Article from a dyed-in-the-wool vegetarian on which is better for the environment, eating meat or being a vegetarian. Some interesting points all around.
                      http://motherjones.com/environment/2...he-environment
                      I just finished reading the book The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability (http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myt.../dp/1604860804) It is written by a former hard core vegan. She definitely has a political axe to grind, but her arguments that our current agra practices are depleting the soil is hard to argue with. Just like we are trying to live within the bounds nature laid out for us big fields of annuals (grains) are not natural and never existed before 10,000 BC. Likewise, ungulates used to roam and eat grasses not grains--just like us farmers need to "go paleo" to find a truly sustainable and healthy path forward.

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                      • #12
                        I agree with the second guy. The rest are all idiots.

                        I see it this way: Grains are unhealthy. Grains destroy the land. Grains waste water. Grains need petrol based fertilisers to grow in the quantities we grow them now. In short, grains are unsustainable. Anything based on that grain farming is unsustainable and unhealthy.

                        This leaves only pastured animal farming, vegetables and fish.

                        Vegetarianism isn't healthy. Overfishing is becoming a problem. So the most important question is, can we pasture feed enough animals to feed everybody?
                        A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                        • #13
                          No let the dummies eat grains and soy. But first abolish healthcare.

                          You know I could be all preachy and self-righteous to people who hower and wash their clothes. I haven't for months and I'm pretty sure it's helping the environment. Am I more green than the greenies? Hot damn I think I am!
                          Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                          Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by trapperjohnme View Post
                            So raising the price of meat will help that?
                            It's not a question of 'raising' the price of meat. It's a question of getting rid of the artificially low cost of SHITTY meat. Not all meat is equal, and the problem with feedlot, antibiotic-fed, hormone growth injected meat is that it's BAD for you. You might as well go back to eating grains, you'd be pumping your body full of so much awful crap. Frankly, regular meat isn't primal - aside from the chemicals, crappy feed and disease, the stress-full living situations is going to have an impact on the nutrients of that 'meat'.

                            I'm talking about getting rid of cheap garbage food, dressed up as meat, and having an appropriate cost for real meat.

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                            • #15
                              It's not a question of 'raising' the price of meat
                              sorry, I was pretty sure what you said was.
                              You'll also see the end of super-cheap beef. And that is no bad thing
                              I somehow equated "ending super cheap beef" with "raising prices"

                              now I am all for ending any subsidies.

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