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Excellent Critique of Good Calories, Bad Calories

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  • #31
    A lot of people take the "eat tons of fat" message to mean load up on bacon, nuts, eggs, olive oil, etc and don't sweat it as long as the carbs are low. But that's folly because omega 6 and lack of omega 3 is profoundly detrimental to fat loss and more importantly regaining the ability to tolerate carbs and be optimally healthy. Sure cutting out the carbs gets people excellent results in fat loss but without eating the right types of fats it really is only half the picture. Same goes for micronutrients and lifestyle factors. It is wrong to see carb restriction as a panacea, although i would argue that it is best if overweight people keep carbs below 50g a day, at least for the first few months.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Stabby View Post
      A lot of people take the "eat tons of fat" message to mean load up on bacon, nuts, eggs, olive oil, etc and don't sweat it as long as the carbs are low. But that's folly because omega 6 and lack of omega 3 is profoundly detrimental to fat loss and more importantly regaining the ability to tolerate carbs and be optimally healthy. Sure cutting out the carbs gets people excellent results in fat loss but without eating the right types of fats it really is only half the picture. Same goes for micronutrients and lifestyle factors. It is wrong to see carb restriction as a panacea, although i would argue that it is best if overweight people keep carbs below 50g a day, at least for the first few months.
      Well said, Stabby.... +1

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      • #33
        Yeah, shame Taubes didn't right a 20 volume unabridged set of tomes. Stabby you inspired my dinner last night. I'll post the recipe when I get a chance.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Chefgerry View Post
          No, I though you might produce the studies......anyway those studies and all studies where self reporting of food consumed could never be used as scientific proof and the foundation for any hypothesis where caloric intake is in question. Personally I think sticking his head in the sand and cherry picking his study material in this manner is more in line with his journalistic background and only proves he's no scientist....not even close.
          Well then if you haven't read it, you aren't really qualified to critique it are you? The studies are cited in the book...I would do your homework for you in the spirit of charity but I've loaned my copy out. The studies I referred to were not "self reporting" but were actually controlled studies taking place on hospital wards. If memory serves:
          Example: 1st group: calorie reduced/balanced diet of 1300Kc (carb, protein and fat)
          2nd group: calorie reduced/ protein, fat, no carb 1300Kc (fat replaces carb )
          3rd group: unlimited calories/protein, fat, no carb

          Over the course of the study, patients in the first group lost the least weight. Patients in the second group lost the most weight, and patients in the 3rd group lost almost as much weight as the patients in the second group. These results were duplicated and peer reviewed and published. Unlike the two studies (and I think there are only two) by Jean Meyer (upon which our entire exercise/health club/personal trainer/public health policy is based) which have never been replicated.

          As far as your declaration that Taubes is far from being a scientist, he has degrees in Physics and Aerospace Engineering and a masters in Journalism and has received numerous awards including acknowledgments from MIT and the National Association of Science Writers. What awards have you recieved for excellent science writing of late? Perhaps in real life you are actually qualified to challenge his credentials and integrity. I'm certainly not. You aren't miffed that he ripped on Cold Fusion in one of his earlier books are you?
          www.KataStrength.blogspot.com
          Free the Kettlebell

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          • #35
            Originally posted by chima_p View Post
            I am just saying that because of Taubes misleading research there are alot of people who have somehow interperted what he has to say as "Eat as much fat as you want and lose weight!".

            This is simply not what is happening. It's still about calories.
            Play with this awhile:
            where

            ΔW is weight change
            κ is ~0.000285 lbs/Cal (Food Calorie = 1kcal)
            Ein(t) is the calories you intake
            Eout(t) is the calories you output

            True statement: ΔW=κ∫dt (Ein(t)-Eout(t)) or over the course of one day: ΔW=κ(Ein-Eout)

            But energy in energy out isn't just a function of activity, it's also a function of what you eat:

            ΔW=κ∫dt (Ein(Eat(t),Activity(t-τ))-Eout(Activity(t),Eat(t-τ)))

            or more correctly, we'd have to integrate over τ too

            ΔW=κ∫∫dtdτ (Ein(Eat(t),Activity(t-τ))-Eout(Activity(t),Eat(t-τ)))

            As far as eating as much fat as you want: go ahead, see how much pure fat you can choke down. It won't be much. A stack of blueberry pancakes is far easier to wolf down than a jar of coconut butter or a stack of sirloins, even.
            www.KataStrength.blogspot.com
            Free the Kettlebell

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            • #36
              "As far as eating as much fat as you want: go ahead, see how much pure fat you can choke down. It won't be much. A stack of blueberry pancakes is far easier to wolf down than a jar of coconut butter or a stack of sirloins, even."

              More true than naysayers would like to believe.

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              • #37
                Grab the sugar bowl and see how much pure sugar you can choke down.
                Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mirrorball View Post
                  Grab the sugar bowl and see how much pure sugar you can choke down.
                  So you are suggesting to choke down as much poison as you can.
                  www.KataStrength.blogspot.com
                  Free the Kettlebell

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                  • #39
                    *shrug* Try to do that and you'll see you won't go very far. Pure fat and pure sugar are both very unappealing. Not just pure fat.
                    Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                    Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                    No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                    Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mirrorball View Post
                      *shrug* Try to do that and you'll see you won't go very far. Pure fat and pure sugar are both very unappealing. Not just pure fat.
                      Since I am very low carb, I "supplement" fats to make up for the lack of calories from carbs. I eat coconut oil by the Tbsp, mmmm. Freeze it in ice cube trays and it's even better. A friend of mine eats 3-4 pemmican bars a day ( beef tallow, grass fed of course) to get enough fat and calories into his diet. Pem is basically pure fat with a little jerky thrown in for flavor.
                      Last edited by couch handy; 07-01-2010, 04:02 PM.
                      www.KataStrength.blogspot.com
                      Free the Kettlebell

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                      • #41
                        A better comparison would have been eating blueberry pancakes vs eating steak. You just cannot eat that much steak, but you can pack in pancakes to the bursting point. Then the pancakes process so fast that leptin barely does it's job before ghrelin is demanding lunch. The steak takes several hours to process and leptin works while ghrelin stays suppressed and you just don't eat as much. The satiety of eating low carb high fat is well documented. Addictive carb eating may not have the references, but it would just seem silly to me to deny it is a very real issue.

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                        • #42
                          It's the protein in the steak that makes you feel full so fast. Not the fat. Compare a steak with nuts, which plenty of people overeat. Nuts are much lower in protein. And blueberry pancakes are not really low-fat.

                          And no, I don't believe in carb addiction. Try a low-carb diet and you might think you have a carb addiction. But if you go to vegan websites, you'll hear people talking about their "meat addiction". Once I read about a raw vegan complaining about his "cooked food addiction". And when I was on a low-fat diet, all I wanted to eat was a cheese omelet dripping with butter. That was my "fat addiction". It's all the same thing to me.
                          Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                          Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                          No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                          Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by couch handy
                            As far as eating as much fat as you want: go ahead, see how much pure fat you can choke down. It won't be much.
                            Originally posted by couch handy View Post
                            I eat coconut oil by the Tbsp, mmmm.
                            So in your opinion can people overeat pure fat or not?
                            Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                            Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                            No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                            Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mirrorball View Post
                              And no, I don't believe in carb addiction.
                              It doesn't matter if you believe it.

                              It's real.

                              Sugar is a carb.

                              Thus, intermittent, excessive sugar intake sensitized D-1 and mu-1 receptors much like some drugs of abuse.
                              sweet taste in the absence of fat may be largely responsible for producing addictive-like behaviors that include a withdrawal syndrome.
                              Of course anyone who has abused sweets knows about the craving.

                              Then Dr. Eades has no trouble extending the issue to glucose and carbs in general.

                              Anecdotally, I have denied myself meat and messed with vegetarianism with no cravings at all. I have gone high carb and low fat, also with no cravings or problems. I cut carbs and went through worse withdrawals than kicking smokes.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Grol View Post
                                It doesn't matter if you believe it.

                                It's real.

                                Sugar is a carb.
                                There are other articles in PubMed which say that low-fat diets are healthier than low-carb diets and grains are good for you, including the second article you linked to, who blames fat for weight gain. Are you going to abandon your low-carb diet and start eating grains? No, I didn't think so.

                                Everything that scientists write about are hypotheses and we are allowed to disagree. You don't have to eat according to the newest pyramid either. I disagree that sugar is more addictive than any other thing that gives us pleasure. People eat sweets instead of vegetables because sweets taste better. But I don't believe that sweets are addictive the same way that alcohol is addictive, for instance. Even newborn babies who never ate anything enjoy the sweet taste. Loving sweets is in our DNA.
                                Originally posted by Grol View Post
                                I have gone high carb and low fat, also with no cravings or problems. I cut carbs and went through worse withdrawals than kicking smokes.
                                Try quitting oxygen. You'll have the worst kinds of cravings ever. Maybe you didn't have any cravings for meat when you switched to vegetarianism, but a lot of people have. Like I said, another anecdote, when I was on a low-fat diet, I daydreamed about eating a cheese omelet. Fat addiction?
                                Last edited by Mirrorball; 07-01-2010, 09:18 PM.
                                Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
                                Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
                                No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
                                Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

                                Comment

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