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Successes for those with Autoimmune Diseases?

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  • #31
    Cillakat, how do you know when getting D is possible? Is there a website that breaks it up by state?. I've been looking for something like this w/ no luck. I'm trying to get as much summer sun as I can but would I be wasting my time if I continued to go out midday in the fall as well?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Katie82 View Post
      Cillakat, how do you know when getting D is possible? Is there a website that breaks it up by state?. I've been looking for something like this w/ no luck. I'm trying to get as much summer sun as I can but would I be wasting my time if I continued to go out midday in the fall as well?
      I used to have some resources lost track of them;/

      In New England, from Sept 1 on, you can't get enough D from sun for it to be relevant. Even now, it needs to be midday with most skin exposed. The further north we go, the shorter that term of D production is. and of course, altitude and skintone factor in signficantly.

      If Krispin Sullivan has a D book out, that's where I'd go for info. check here: krispin.com

      Test, test and retest is the bottom line.



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      • #33
        Originally posted by Just4ME View Post
        cillkat: Thank you for the links and your insightful posts!!
        thank you!



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        • #34
          Thanks! That's sad though, I was enjoying sitting out in the sun knowing it's good for me and now it's almost over : )

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          • #35
            Professor Holick's book has tables showing in his opinion how much sun exposure is needed, with the variables being locale, exposure time, skin type, and season. Unfortunately from roughly San Francisco north, 35 degrees of latitude and above, per his tables no amount of sun exposure is sufficient from November through February given the angle of the sun.

            What we really need is for some enterprising soul to develop an inexpensive electronic "D Meter" that assesses and reads out UV-B radiation.

            I'm curious about high altitude exposure, even in winter months. Cross-country skiing on a brilliant day in mid-winter can still result in a nasty sunburn on unprotected skin in the mountains of the SW U.S. UV-B increases with altitude. Per professor Holick, the half-life of Vitamin D in the blood is two to three weeks when the D is obtained from supplements, but twice that long when D is obtained from the sun.

            Occasional mid-winter vitamin D "safaris" might be a fun Primal activity, especially for those who live within reasonable driving proximity of a good Vitamin D sunning spot. Could be combined with other Primal activities. I'm interested in how much increased altitude might make up for the poor angle of the sun. There are plenty of bright days in the SW mountains even in mid-winter when the sun is so bright and warm that not a lot of clothing would be needed while sunning.

            It would be great to have some sort of accurate electronic assessment of the UV-B. Have to look into that.

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            • #36
              Some quick checking, there are UV-B meters available. Might run close to $200. Reptiles are very vulnerable to UV-B deficiency induced Vitamin D deficiency. So some are used by reptile enthusiasts to check the efficacy of their reptile lights. Here are the results of one person's measurements outdoors, and the next page also:

              http://www.oregonphotos.com/UVB-Oregon.html

              The UV-B radiation seems so variable depending on altitude and atmospheric pollution and so on, a meter might be worthwhile. Might need to pick up one and experiment with it. Once base readings were obtained for different seasons and exposures, one could wing it from there without the need for obsessive measuring.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Paleo Man View Post
                Some quick checking, there are UV-B meters available. Might run close to $200. Reptiles are very vulnerable to UV-B deficiency induced Vitamin D deficiency. So some are used by reptile enthusiasts to check the efficacy of their reptile lights. Here are the results of one person's measurements outdoors, and the next page also:

                http://www.oregonphotos.com/UVB-Oregon.html

                The UV-B radiation seems so variable depending on altitude and atmospheric pollution and so on, a meter might be worthwhile. Might need to pick up one and experiment with it. Once base readings were obtained for different seasons and exposures, one could wing it from there without the need for obsessive measuring.
                I've been seriously considering one. Thanks for the reminder!

                K



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                • #38
                  This is a good thread. Very helpful for many who are suffering and don't know what to do. But why is it that we know these things and doctors don't? I don't like going all conspiracy, but you have to admit it is more profitable for them with the public NOT knowing how to heal themselves. And most won't research, they will just go to their doctor. I visited many doctors about my Crohn's Disease and NONE them told me my diet was to blame. (I'm not sure that it is a disease ..sounds more like a symptom of eating differently from what we evolved to eat and perhaps we are more sensitive to the change). They told me it is okay to eat whatever I want as long as I take the medication. I know from liability issues they have to give drugs..but why not tell us about dietary changes as well, they cannot really be that ignorant, I just can't believe that.

                  Strom, personally I would take Paleo Man's advice to do an elimination diet for everything. I fixed myself up after suffering for only 2 years, so it didn't take me as long to heal as it will take you. But definitely eliminate gluten/dairy anyways and I would also add peanuts to that list as well. You want a diet that creates the least amount of inflammation in you. Steroids work for CD sufferers because it's a drug that reduces inflammation A LOT, but there are consequences and withdrawal. For me, a really low inflammation diet would be a carnivorous diet. I have no rashes, no acne, basically very low inflammation on a zero carb diet. It may be the low caloric intake that does it combined with zero fiber to rough up the intestines and zero casein, but I don't know. But I can't do it long because I become way too skinny and look anorexic almost on that diet (It also doesn't have much variety, but to each his own). Adding vegetables, some fruit and fiber increases inflammation some but not enough to even get close to where I was before with arthritic pain, stomach pain and bleeding.

                  And definitely try fasting. I remember that was a biggie to get me started. Maybe do a 2 or 3 day fast every month or so. Let it clear your intestines, and let them rest. I would also give one of those intermittent fasting programs a try like an 19 hour fast daily with 5 hours where you can eat. Again, let it rest, let it repair before you start eating throughout the day.

                  I think you'll get it going, as I think most Crohn's sufferers can get it all worked out eventually. It's an autoimmune disease of civilization, not a genetic disorder (as much as doctors love to say its genetic and theres nothing you can do about it).

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BlazeKING View Post
                    I would also add peanuts to that list as well.
                    Peanuts are a legume, same as beans. Cut out all legumes. I didn't realise legumes caused me trouble until I cut them out and then ate them casually one day.
                    A steak a day keeps the doctor away

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                    • #40
                      Great thread. Thanks for all the good information.

                      Working with GF support groups, my best estimate is that of those who describe or think of themselves as gluten free, only one out of four or so is actually avoiding gluten strictly enough to resolve or avoid adaptive immune system health problems.
                      I completely agree on this one. I used to frequent those GF forums and it used to fry my bacon that the lax would want to fight with you about how important it was to be more careful. They were satisfied with what they were doing and got very righteous when those of us in the careful camp would advocate for our views. I had to quit participating in those GF forums because of it. All I could do after a certain point was shake my head. I had a very reactive gut when I first found out I needed to be GF. When I would relate my experience, or try to give support to others with similar experiences, the pro-laxity people would jump in and say, "Not true!" -- as if they knew better than I did what my gut was doing. Crazy. I just had to let it go. I feel so sorry for people who need a really careful GF diet and never get it because the "good enough" crowd shouts down anybody who disagrees with them.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by slacker View Post
                        Great thread. Thanks for all the good information.



                        I completely agree on this one. I used to frequent those GF forums and it used to fry my bacon that the lax would want to fight with you about how important it was to be more careful. They were satisfied with what they were doing and got very righteous when those of us in the careful camp would advocate for our views. I had to quit participating in those GF forums because of it. All I could do after a certain point was shake my head. I had a very reactive gut when I first found out I needed to be GF. When I would relate my experience, or try to give support to others with similar experiences, the pro-laxity people would jump in and say, "Not true!" -- as if they knew better than I did what my gut was doing. Crazy. I just had to let it go. I feel so sorry for people who need a really careful GF diet and never get it because the "good enough" crowd shouts down anybody who disagrees with them.
                        One of the things I really like about Paleo/Primal is the recognition that gluten intolerance in some degree is present in everyone, though some are more seriously, or I should say more noticeably, affected than others. Many in the gluten-free community at large cling to their status as "diseased" and that they were "diagnosed." They even provide the facts and dates of their "diagnosis" with honest-to-goodness "celiac disease."

                        Paleo/Primal tends to recognize that the problem is not "diseased people" but toxic food, a much better and wiser perspective. A much more positive approach than sitting around having a pity party about being "diseased" and trying to cook up as much imitation wheat food that looks as much like CW SAD as possible.

                        When you look at a grain of bread wheat and consider that it has a genome approximately six times larger than the human genome, including reportedly over 78,000 different protein combinations, many bioactive, you realize that it has evolved such complexity and bioactivity to protect it against being eaten. To cause an innate or adaptive immune reaction in anything that ingests it. It doesn't want to be eaten; it wants to survive and grow more wheat. We humans have learned to cook it and thus suppress some but not all of the adverse reactions it produces, just enough that we can eat it for a time without starving.

                        I'm acquainted with autoimmune patients who can't get out of bed or even roll over by themselves. And one who can only communicate by blinking her eyes. Another who has do-not-resuscitate posted on her refrigerator awaiting the next EMT visit. Others yet whose gluten ingestion has surely caused their Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, the incidence of which is many, many times higher in those who have progressed to an adaptive immune response to gluten. Not to mention numerous people with GI problems, Crohn's IBS, and colitis. And then there is the at-first unnoticed brain damage associated with gluten consumption in those who have become vulnerable . . .

                        http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0424073708.htm

                        Daniel G. Amen, MD, reports a study in his book, Change Your Brain, Change Your Body, showing that gluten intolerant patients who still consumed gluten had a 73% incidence of decreased blood flow to the brains evident on SPECT imaging while those who went gluten free had only 7% incidence of decreased blood flow to the brain.

                        Hate to say it, but this brain damage/dysfunction could explain some of the attitudes toward continuing gluten consumption by those who should strictly avoid it.

                        Why play Russian roulette with any amount of gluten? Gluten is a lighted match. Autoimmunity is gasoline. One should be kept far away from the other.

                        And there is another factor that I hesitate to mention at the risk of sounding sexist. A wise integrative physician made made a provocative observation. He noted that most men tended to remain in denial regarding their chronic medical problems until the problems killed them. But that many women, if they had chronic disease that was longstanding enough, would fall in love with their disease (as with an abusive man) and though they wouldn't mind a bit of relief, would be loathe to turn completely loose of their chronic disease. Neither of these generalizations applies at all to the Primal men and women that I have encountered on this site. They want to be as healthy as possible and are willing to do what it takes to get there. I am greatly impressed.
                        Last edited by Paleo Man; 08-08-2010, 07:21 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Now if only scientists would stop trying to prevent wheat blight from happening
                          The world would be a much less complicated place if we all just focused on replacing wheat slowly w/ other non-gluten crops and sustainable agriculture. But noooo...

                          http://mycology.suite101.com/article...ds-wheat-crops

                          Unexpectedly, a highly virulent strain of the fungus was discovered in South Africa in the spring of 2010. Researchers are working feverishly to produce new cultivars of wheat resistant to this fungal pathogen
                          I think you're right Paleo Man, brain damage from ingesting wheat is an epidemic (I'm only partly kidding)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Katie82 View Post
                            Now if only scientists would stop trying to prevent wheat blight from happening
                            The world would be a much less complicated place if we all just focused on replacing wheat slowly w/ other non-gluten crops and sustainable agriculture. But noooo...

                            http://mycology.suite101.com/article...ds-wheat-crops



                            I think you're right Paleo Man, brain damage from ingesting wheat is an epidemic (I'm only partly kidding)
                            Back in my obviously brain-damaged eating-lots-of-wheat days, someone told me that wheat was a "Superfood" and that proof of it could be found in the fact that you could take a grain of wheat from an ancient Pharaoh's tomb and plant it and it would still grow. I was impressed. Until slowly critical thinking sank into my wheat damaged brain, and I realized that the only reason that a grain of wheat would last intact for 3,000 years in an ancient tomb was that it was so toxic that nothing (microbal or otherwise) was dumb enough to eat it in the meantime.

                            Truly good and edible human food spoils pretty quickly.
                            Last edited by Paleo Man; 08-08-2010, 09:20 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Thankyou Cillakat and Paleo Man. I have spoken to my sister about the vitamin d and she's definitely going to sort out the supplements.

                              I have also shown her Paleo Man's response which she found really encouraging.

                              I've got a bit of work to do, but I think i'll get them giving it a go before too long!

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                              • #45
                                Hi there, I'm pretty new to the PB forums, but was really excited when i found this thread. I was diagnosed with RA almost 3 years ago and quickly did a food elimination diet and discovered that gluten played a major role in my flare ups. My doc put me on Hydroxychloroquine and between that and being GF i felt pretty good. But i was still unsatisfied that i had to be taking meds. A few months ago i discovered MDA and it all just seemed to make sense. After avoiding grains and sugars I have been able to stop taking the drugs and I feel great....i walk a lot and climb 3xs a week. And when i fall off the wagon (which happens more times than i'd like to admit) i definitely feel it. So i try to pull myself up and get back on. I have not been back to my doc to get new tests done due to my crappy health insurance (can't wait till sept. when pre-existing conditions won't effect insur.). I am interested to see if any of my levels have changed. Next step...actually taking the vit. D and fish oil and changing my mentality from 'I should avoid grains and sugars' to 'i don't eat grains and sugars.'

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