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  • #16
    Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
    Hi Solstice!

    It would normally be my answer, too. They have lived eating it so far, haven't they? But I changed their fats to better reflect the Primal standard, and found that my Third has a major jump in language ability with a much-improved o-3/o-6 ratio, and I used to only be able to affect that by giving her huge amounts of fish oil DHA. I really want these improvements to stick around, and so far they have, only by adjusting this one thing (this is also the kid who uses a computer-assisted talking device, and is shy about talking to anybody other than trusted people, so this gets complicated fast). I won't bore you with any more special-kid talk, but I just wanted to say that her Mama just can't go back to that after seeing those kinds of improvements.
    Hi there! I didnt realize you had changed and you were seeing improvements...just thought you were trying to be more primal! I guess my go to would be bacon fat---I know it disappears quickly in our house as well. I render down lard in the winter from pastured pork, but there is something about bacon grease that is tastier---probably the salt!
    Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
    http://thewoodsygal.com/

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    • #17
      Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
      Choco- If you read the entire post you would have found that this is primarily a kid issue...
      And one of the kids has some very particular sensory issues.
      I did read that, and it makes it more troubling. The fact that the kids "need" a topper is a problem in and of itself. This is exactly how bad habits develop, and they lead to all kinds of problems later in life (specifically obesity). Now's a great time to break that habit and get the kids eating real food instead of food with junk sloshed on top of it. Most Americans don't even have properly functioning taste buds because everything on their plate is coated in salt, sugar or butter.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #18
        What about coconut cream, if the problem is that lard is too hard at room temperature to easily spread?

        Coconut cream is actually cheaper here than dairy cream.
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          Most Americans don't even have properly functioning taste buds because everything on their plate is coated in salt, sugar or butter.
          I highly doubt salt or butter are causing any issues for the American palate.

          To the OP - could you try making ghee for your kids? If you toast the ghee until dark golden brown and then triple strain it, it is very delicious and probably safe for those that are dairy intolerant. (Probably NOT safe for people with an IgE mediated true allergy though).
          Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

          http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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          • #20
            Right... because a small amount of fat on a plate of steamed vegetables is going to really harm a kid.

            Adding some extra flavor to the vegetables through some butter (or other fat) is not really any different than adding it through the addition of a sauce of herbs, citrus, wine reduction etc that you suggested as a perfectly acceptable way to alter the flavor of the vegetables... except that sometimes it's faster and easier for a busy mother of several children. Especially if those children each like different flavors!
            Altering taste is altering taste. Plain and simple.
            If there is room in the diet calorically there is no reason not to have some FAT.

            Adding a a "topper" doesn't meant the food has to "swim" in fat...
            Adding salt doesn't mean that you can no longer taste the food...
            Adding sugar doesn't meant that it whatever you've added it to becomes like syrup.

            BTW... don't you use salt. And also add sugar to foods?
            That's a lot of taste altering going on.
            Just because you are against adding fat, doesn't mean every one should be.


            Also... as you obviously don't know... dealing with special needs children is not the same as dealing with other children.
            Regardless, if you're the kind of man who will make your kids spend their lives eating plain steamed vegetables with no flavor enhancement at all... I hope there are no women out there fool enough procreate with you. That would be a miserable food-nazi household indeed! LOL
            **Edit: Also... children with parents who are that strict tend to be awful about stealing/cheating with food later... it does not set them up for living with a healthy life long food attitude.
            I know some food-nazi moms.... you should see what those kids are like when they get out side of the moms direct control. It's scary, they will over eat the "bad" foods until they get sick all while doing the "OMG Mom NEVER lets me have these!!!". Not a healthy and responsible food relationship at all. I don't think you understand children at all.
            Last edited by cori93437; 08-26-2012, 07:02 PM.
            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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            • #21
              You can easily make homemade mayonnaise, and if you vary the kind of oil you use, you have different flavors. I've made mayo with avocado oil, walnut oil, MCT oil, and a combination of mostly EVOO plus a little coconut oil. Each had a distinct flavor--and you can stir in various spices for even more flavor variety. I add a little vinegar, paprika, and salt and pepper to mayo to make a good consistency for salad dressing. If you don't want it tart, add a little coconut or almond milk.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by jammies View Post
                I highly doubt salt or butter are causing any issues for the American palate.
                Why? Because you personally like salt and butter on your food, but you have some bias against sugar so that has to be the culprit? Food - real food - is not swimming in fat, sugar or salt. These are isolated, man-made products. Butter, olive oil, coconut oil and bacon grease aren't found anywhere in nature. Milk, olives, coconuts and pork are found in nature. Oddly enough, maple syrup and honey are found in nature, so I submit to you that sugar could be less of a problem. Look at the amount of things that are breaded and fried. What do they have in common - fat and salt. None of these things are sweet.

                Your body has a natural tendency to crave three things: fat, sugar and salt. The first two are both crucial energy sources for your body, and the second is mandatory to keep you hydrated and regulate your thyroid (and therefore most of your hormones). When you isolate them and coat your food in them, you make your brain signal to the rest of your body, "More, more, more!" It leads to overeating.

                If you don't think fat and salt are a problem, look at the people eating ears of corn slathered in butter and salt at BBQ's, and look at the people choking down fried chicken at KFC. Do you think those people would eat the same amount of plain, boiled corn and steamed chicken?

                This is a fantastic opportunity for the OP to break their children's poor eating habits and embrace real food.
                Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-26-2012, 05:17 PM.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Why? Because you personally like salt and butter on your food, but you have some bias against sugar so that has to be the culprit? Food - real food - is not swimming in fat, sugar or salt. These are isolated, man-made products. Butter, olive oil, coconut oil and bacon grease aren't found anywhere in nature. Milk, olives, coconuts and pork are found in nature. Oddly enough, maple syrup and honey are found in nature, so I submit to you that sugar could be less of a problem. Look at the amount of things that are breaded and fried. What do they have in common - fat and salt. None of these things are sweet.

                  Your body has a natural tendency to crave three things: fat, sugar and salt. The first two are both crucial energy sources for your body, and the second is mandatory to keep you hydrated and regulate your thyroid (and therefore most of your hormones). When you isolate them and coat your food in them, you make your brain signal to the rest of your body, "More, more, more!" It leads to overeating.

                  If you don't think fat and salt are a problem, look at the people eating ears of corn slathered in butter and salt at BBQ's, and look at the people choking down fried chicken at KFC. Do you think those people would eat the same amount of plain, boiled corn and steamed chicken?

                  This is a fantastic opportunity for the OP to break their children's poor eating habits and embrace real food.
                  You used to be a reasonable member of this forum. Why do you need everything to be so adversarial and controversial lately? I don't think actually think a little sugar is that big of a deal. Nor do I believe that butter and salt used in home cooking as the OP is describing are driving the obesity in this country.

                  You are comparing people eating KFC to people putting a little butter on their broccoli? Buttered corn at a BBQ? That's the big obesity culprit in the country? The idea is laughable.
                  Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                  http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jammies View Post
                    You used to be a reasonable member of this forum. Why do you need everything to be so adversarial and controversial lately? I don't think actually think a little sugar is that big of a deal. Nor do I believe that butter and salt used in home cooking as the OP is describing are driving the obesity in this country.

                    You are comparing people eating KFC to people putting a little butter on their broccoli? Buttered corn at a BBQ? That's the big obesity culprit in the country? The idea is laughable.
                    Because the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. You don't need oil sloshed on top of your food. If you are so casein sensitive that you cannot but butter on top of your food, just leave it at that. You don't need to find something else to put on top of it. Let the kids get used to eating real food. Don't fan the flames. Why is that so "unreasonable"?
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      Because the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. You don't need oil sloshed on top of your food. If you are so casein sensitive that you cannot but butter on top of your food, just leave it at that. You don't need to find something else to put on top of it. Let the kids get used to eating real food. Don't fan the flames. Why is that so "unreasonable"?
                      You will be a terrible parent if you are that inflexible with your kids. Is margarine *really* worth dying in a ditch over? If you decide that margarine is banished from your house (and you can't be bothered to find an alternative that is acceptable to your kids), you may find that turning what foods your children choose to put into their bodies into a 'win-lose' confrontation does not work out well in the long run.

                      We dived headfirst into primal, and the hardest adjustment for us as a family was breakfast. Basically we came up with scrambled eggs, bacon and eggs and (meat + vege) soup as our various breakfast permutations. Eventually our kids rebelled at this protein heavy diet (one of them *still* won't eat eggs to this day) and we now have a breakfast for us and they get to alternate between ricies and porridge (topped with raw milk, yoghurt and cream). Now our eldest partakes with my wife on 'bacon and egg day' and our youngest has regained his enthusiasm for eggs.

                      But we didn't get buy-in by saying 'it's my way or the highway'.
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Choco What you are saying sounds perfectly reasonable in theory but as Cori and Jammies have pointed out there are flaws with your ideas. Kids are unique individuals and some parents and non-parents make the mistake in thinking that if they simply will it to be so they can change their kid's tastes. Sounds like Crabcakes wants to respect her kid's taste preferences and give them healthy substitutes. She isn't trying to make a primal version of KFC at home. From what Crabcakes has said her kids are eating real food.
                        Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There is also a difference with fast foods and just debating margarine---fast foods are loaded with MSG and "artificial flavor" that act as an excitotoxin.

                          Also with kiddos, since I have two, it IS easier to just never start down a certain path (ex. needing margarine), but when you switch diet on the fly (after your kids have already partaken of the "bad" stuff) then you must tread lightly --- I agree!
                          Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
                          http://thewoodsygal.com/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Ignore him. He's an idiot. As a kid I couldn't stand ground beef, potato chips or refried beans. You could not get me to eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell. My mom had do do crazy inventions to get me to eat homemade hamburgers. I grew out of all my picky stuff eventually. He obviously has had no children or picky husbands to deal with (is there a difference between the two?)

                            Anyway, I made this today. Pistachio Pesto Recipe - Food.com - 110688 The farmers market had pistachio butter so I used that. I suppose you could leave out the cheese. I left out the cilantro and went pretty light on the olive oil. Don't know if kids would eat it. I bet they'd eat a tomato-based pesto. I'm totally going to experiment with pestos thanks to this thread.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                            • #29
                              sbhikes, that looks so delicious! What did you serve it with?
                              Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                I did read that, and it makes it more troubling. The fact that the kids "need" a topper is a problem in and of itself. This is exactly how bad habits develop, and they lead to all kinds of problems later in life (specifically obesity). Now's a great time to break that habit and get the kids eating real food instead of food with junk sloshed on top of it. Most Americans don't even have properly functioning taste buds because everything on their plate is coated in salt, sugar or butter.
                                Choco, I'm going to humor you by explaining a few things.

                                When Third was a toddler, she and I found ourselves at a high-powered children's hospital because she wouldn't eat - as a toddler. At this hospital, we found out she has (among other problems) a nasty sensory disorder, which is neurological, congenital, and not reversible. This hospital gave me a few strategies to use so she wouldn't start dropping even more weight, and one of them was using additions to her food that "wake up" the tongue/mouth, like lemon slices for ex. I did not screw up my kid by being a bad SAD mother - she came this way from the factory, and those additions prevented her from going on Pediasure crap or worse. She still could eat real food, which is all I have ever given her.

                                6 years ago, this same daughter went on the SCD, which is the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It is designed for Crohn's disease / ulcerative colitis, but we used it to cure chronic diarrhea. The SCD is grain-free, legume-free, tuber-free, dairy-free, added-sugar free (with the exception of honey if you can tolerate it), vegetable-gum (guar, etc.)-free and artificial-chemical-free. The basis of the diet is meats, vegetables, fats and oils, nuts and seeds if you can tolerate them, eggs, fresh herbs and spices, and fruit once healing has set in. Everything must be cooked fresh. Lemme' see... this sounds like the Primal, doesn't it? And all that 5-1/2 years before I had even heard of the word Primal. The only thing missing from the SCD is the knowledge of o-6/0-3 ratios and seed oils, and this is what I am fixing with Third's diet now.

                                At this point in her life, she eats heartily and often - with toppers. I have a kid, at age 11, who has NEVER had regular birthday cake, candy bars, soda, pastries, pizza, goldfish crackers, fish sticks, Lunchables, KFC, fill in the blank... and she obeys her diet. I have a friggin' mentally slow kid who actually always denies herself stuff not on her diet. Typical kids wouldn't even do that.

                                So when I post a thread asking for BETTER replacements for margarine, from all of you who cook Primal, I think I am justified and not being "ridiculous". Special-needs kids do not and are not like everyone else. And you can very easily cause food aversions or worse if you handle stuff like this badly.

                                In a perfect world, peas would stand by themselves - her world isn't perfect, though. She has too damn much to deal with, and I am not going to fight her on this. She will get her toppers, just adjusted for better health results.
                                I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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