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  • Traditional Cooking Methods

    For all the talk about traditional foods, I think we forget how preparation can change them.

    I think eating raw meat is the only thing that you should not do with the modern situation. For that matter, does anybody have info on whether any primitive cultures did in fact eat their meat raw? When I say meat, I am referring to non-fish.

    I've been making a lot of soups with my food. It's an all encompassing meal that has enough nutrition for all day. What I've discovered recently though is that it seems all that slow cooking and water seems to damage my vegetables. I stop getting intact phytonutrients and vitamins. I'm basically drinking fatty water with broken down carbs (the vegetables) or just plant matter. I think I was healthier when I cooked different ways.

    Here's what I realized. In my mind, the traditional food layout would have been:
    -meat, bone marrow, other offal and tubers (maybe gourds) by the fire
    -gathered vegetables and fruit eaten raw

    I recognize the naturalistic fallacy, but I don't think it applies here too much. Gentle roasting of that first category along with mostly fresh vegetables seems like it will provide more intact and wholesome nutrition than making everything into a stew. I'll recognize other cooking methods such as sauteing and grilling, but I think those are done moreso for the taste.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    I dunno--slow-cooking is known to make more bio-available the nutrients in many veggies. I can't imagine there are many foods more nutritious than a pastured beef or chicken stew made with bone/marrow stock.
    “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

    "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
    - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mixie View Post
      I dunno--slow-cooking is known to make more bio-available the nutrients in many veggies. I can't imagine there are many foods more nutritious than a pastured beef or chicken stew made with bone/marrow stock.
      The problem is that you then have to drink the entire broth to get all those nutrients. I'm not so much commenting on the meat though. I'm more referring to the mushy vegetables that had everything cooked out of them.

      Comment


      • #4
        But everything - except heat-sensitive vitamins like vit C - cooks into the stew, so if you drink the broth too, you're not losing much, except texture. Some veggies are better absorbed like that anyway. The idea of eating raw veg is foreign to many cultures, it's not totally necessary as long as you can get some vit C from fruit or something.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
          The problem is that you then have to drink the entire broth to get all those nutrients. I'm not so much commenting on the meat though. I'm more referring to the mushy vegetables that had everything cooked out of them.
          Right. What's wrong with drinking the entire broth? It's f*kin delicious, and if you skip it you're missing out on all the good gelatin, etc. Also, if your veggies are "mushy" then yer doin' it wrong ;09
          “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

          "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
          - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mixie View Post
            Right. What's wrong with drinking the entire broth? It's f*kin delicious, and if you skip it you're missing out on all the good gelatin, etc. Also, if your veggies are "mushy" then yer doin' it wrong ;09
            There's a butt load of broth to drink. It's really hard to eat all that food AND drink like a gallon or whatever of broth. It's just more volume than my stomach needs. I don't lose out on all the gelatin if I still eat it in a different way.

            Maybe I am doing it wrong. I'm kind of a bad cook. At least I can safely cook roasted meats and tubers! Everything else can just be munched on.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by spughy View Post
              But everything - except heat-sensitive vitamins like vit C - cooks into the stew, so if you drink the broth too, you're not losing much, except texture. Some veggies are better absorbed like that anyway. The idea of eating raw veg is foreign to many cultures, it's not totally necessary as long as you can get some vit C from fruit or something.
              My understanding is that a lot of things can be damaged by excess cooking. Even proteins. Mind you...I'm generally cooking the stuff for around 4 hours on at least a simmer. Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong on the fact that I'm getting less nutrition this way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                There's a butt load of broth to drink. It's really hard to eat all that food AND drink like a gallon or whatever of broth. It's just more volume than my stomach needs. I don't lose out on all the gelatin if I still eat it in a different way.

                Maybe I am doing it wrong. I'm kind of a bad cook. At least I can safely cook roasted meats and tubers! Everything else can just be munched on.
                It sounds like you're using wayyyy too much water, to me! Gelatin (and most of the nutrients you can extract from the bones) really only comes with wet cooking methods: soups, stews, or just rendering the gelatin out of the bones and saving it to cook with. You don't get it just from eating meat off the bone.
                Is it helpful to offer some stew and bone stock recipes/techniques?
                “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mixie View Post
                  It sounds like you're using wayyyy too much water, to me! Gelatin (and most of the nutrients you can extract from the bones) really only comes with wet cooking methods: soups, stews, or just rendering the gelatin out of the bones and saving it to cook with. You don't get it just from eating meat off the bone.
                  Is it helpful to offer some stew and bone stock recipes/techniques?
                  I only use enough water to mostly cover what is in the pot. If I add less water, I think I'd start burning the food. Damned either way....

                  Give me everything you have on bone broth/stew. I love eating marrow by the way. I'll eat maybe 4 roasted 3-inch beef marrow bones with a dinner.

                  When you say gelatin, is that not just connective tissue? In other words, the cartiledge & tendons that are imbedded in the meat are full of gelatin. Possibly even the marrow would have gelatin? What is the value of gelatin anyways?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                    I only use enough water to mostly cover what is in the pot. If I add less water, I think I'd start burning the food. Damned either way....

                    Give me everything you have on bone broth/stew. I love eating marrow by the way. I'll eat maybe 4 roasted 3-inch beef marrow bones with a dinner.

                    When you say gelatin, is that not just connective tissue? In other words, the cartiledge & tendons that are imbedded in the meat are full of gelatin. Possibly even the marrow would have gelatin? What is the value of gelatin anyways?
                    Okay, good, fantastic--save all those bones. If you can cut them any smaller (or smash 'em with a sledge hammer), that might be helpful in aiding mineral extraction.
                    Speaking of which, on the value of gelatin, allow me to introduce you to the Weston A. Price Foundation: Why Broth is Beautiful!

                    ...Actually, yeah. That's about everything you ever wanted to know about bone stock in one spot. Plow through that or skim for the recipes and techniques at the bottom. The "why" to eat the whole broth is up top, it's science-y around the middle, and the "how" is at the bottom. It's a FABULOUS resource.
                    I have a freezer half-full of chicken and turkey bone/marrow stocks I've been making all year and saving for Thanksgiving and Christmas cooking for the whole family. This stuff is like GOLD--I use it in/on/around everything. Sauce bases, soup bases, mashed cauli, use the fat for roasting veggies... Cheers! =)
                    “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                    "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                    - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, okay, that's how and why to make your own stock.
                      Now, to make your stew, chunk up your cheapest meat (shank and oxtail are my preferred stringy bits). Get out your cast-iron dutch oven (or skillet, if you're gonna transfer to the crock pot). If you're using the oven, turn to 450*. Get your gadget hot and melt a good wad of fat. If you've made your own stock, this will be bone marrow and tallow that you pick off the top in "puck" form when the broth cools. Bacon fat is good, too. Get it good and hot, and throw in your stringy meat. Brown it around, let it stick, scrape it off, just kinda get it all good and carmelized. Don't cook through, you just want some good brown bits. Kosher salt and black pepper liberally, here. I'm prone to s*t tons of garlic, big chopped onions, and sage, also, but that's just me. Add a couple tablespoons of tapicoa starch or potato starch to help it all stick and brown.

                      Add in a bunch more marrow and fat and throw in big, fat chunks of onion, taters/yams, carrots, parsnips, rutabega, celery, tomato... pretty much whatever you have lying around the fridge. Not too much, like 2-3x the volume of meat, or however your preferred diet ratio works out. I tend to use one white starchy, big hunks of dried kelp, plus mushrooms, tomato, carrot, and celery hearts and leaves. Get that stuff all fatted up and throw in some more kosher or sea salt for good measure. Lots of black pepper, a couple of bay leaves, celery seeds, whatever herbs you like best. Start adding in your stock, scraping the bottom and getting it all incorporated as you go. Just put in enough to barely cover everything. You want bits of it to stick up and get brown.

                      If you have a good dutch oven (and you should, they're cheap and will last several lifetimes), stick the whole thing in the (hot as hell) oven for... like... 20-25 mins. Then turn the heat down to 200* for about 2 hrs.

                      PS: if you have a chimney vent on the oven, make sure it's open! Otherwise, add a little broth to the skillet to juice everything up, then throw it in the crock pot just until it boils and thickens. It's way fine in the crock pot from 2-4 hrs, but IMO the dutch oven/oven combo is as good as you can get without an actual open fire.

                      Pull it out and let it sit for ten minutes or so (don't say I didn't warn you) and try not to scald your face in the pot of amazing. Enjoy!
                      Last edited by mixie; 10-25-2011, 07:21 PM.
                      “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                      "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                      - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mixie View Post
                        So, okay, that's how and why to make your own stock.
                        Now, to make your stew, chunk up your cheapest meat (shank and oxtail are my preferred stringy bits). Get out your cast-iron dutch oven (or skillet, if you're gonna transfer to the crock pot). If you're using the oven, turn to 450*. Get your gadget hot and melt a good wad of fat. If you've made your own stock, this will be bone marrow and tallow that you pick off the top in "puck" form when the broth cools. Bacon fat is good, too. Get it good and hot, and throw in your stringy meat. Brown it around, let it stick, scrape it off, just kinda get it all good and carmelized. Don't cook through, you just want some good brown bits. Kosher salt and black pepper liberally, here. I'm prone to s*t tons of garlic, big chopped onions, and sage, also, but that's just me. Add a couple tablespoons of tapicoa starch or potato starch to help it all stick and brown.

                        Add in a bunch more marrow and fat and throw in big, fat chunks of onion, taters/yams, carrots, parsnips, rutabega, celery, tomato... pretty much whatever you have lying around the fridge. Not too much, like 2-3x the volume of meat, or however your preferred diet ratio works out. I tend to use one white starchy, big hunks of dried kelp, plus mushrooms, tomato, carrot, and celery hearts and leaves. Get that stuff all fatted up and throw in some more kosher or sea salt for good measure. Lots of black pepper, a couple of bay leaves, celery seeds, whatever herbs you like best. Start adding in your stock, scraping the bottom and getting it all incorporated as you go. Just put in enough to barely cover everything. You want bits of it to stick up and get brown.

                        If you have a good dutch oven (and you should, they're cheap and will last several lifetimes), stick the whole thing in the (hot as hell) oven for... like... 20-25 mins. Then turn the heat down to 200* for about 2 hrs.

                        PS: if you have a chimney vent on the oven, make sure it's open! Otherwise, add a little broth to the skillet to juice everything up, then throw it in the crock pot just until it boils and thickens. It's way fine in the crock pot from 2-4 hrs, but IMO the dutch oven/oven combo is as good as you can get without an actual open fire.

                        Pull it out and let it sit for ten minutes or so (don't say I didn't warn you) and try not to scald your face in the pot of amazing. Enjoy!
                        Wow I appreciate that. Sounds hard, but I guess I'll have a free afternoon sometime.

                        Originally posted by mixie View Post
                        Okay, good, fantastic--save all those bones. If you can cut them any smaller (or smash 'em with a sledge hammer), that might be helpful in aiding mineral extraction.
                        Speaking of which, on the value of gelatin, allow me to introduce you to the Weston A. Price Foundation: Why Broth is Beautiful!

                        ...Actually, yeah. That's about everything you ever wanted to know about bone stock in one spot. Plow through that or skim for the recipes and techniques at the bottom. The "why" to eat the whole broth is up top, it's science-y around the middle, and the "how" is at the bottom. It's a FABULOUS resource.
                        I have a freezer half-full of chicken and turkey bone/marrow stocks I've been making all year and saving for Thanksgiving and Christmas cooking for the whole family. This stuff is like GOLD--I use it in/on/around everything. Sauce bases, soup bases, mashed cauli, use the fat for roasting veggies... Cheers! =)
                        The main part I didn't get was your talk about marrow stocks. I eat the marrow right out of the bone, so there's really nothing to save after my meals except bones. I'm just about to jump into that WAPF link, but is it still work collecting bones just for the "bone" part of the broth?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I know it sounds intimidating, but it's actually really, really easy. Basically you want to start with your meat, brown it in fat. Add in your veggies and more fat, let that brown, add in a little starch, add in your stock and spices, et voila ;0)

                          And yes, it is absolutely worth extracting the minerals from the bone itself. Remember that the purpose of eating the cow is to get all the nutrients the grass extracted from the soil and the cow extracted from the grass. The cow put all that calcium and a whole lot more into building bone structure--and those are minerals you need for healthy bones and teeth, and smoothly functioning muscles, too.

                          Plus, it's just GD delicious. Good stock has a silky, marrow-y consistency that defines "unctuous". During the cold months I make a good stew about every other week in a big batch and we'll eat from it off and on until it's gone. It's perfect, primal human chow with everything you need in one shot. Beefy, fatty... I'll throw in a couple of those little green thai chilies, too, toward the end for a kick. A good beef stew is food for the soul.

                          I'd roast the marrow bones for eating, for the sake of saving time I'll usually do about four or five pounds of cut marrow bones at a time. Three or four of them at once is usually about all I can handle, but they reheat perfectly well under the broiler during the week. Anyway, when I roast the big batch, there's usually a good layer of liquefied marrow at the bottom of the skillet. I'll dump that into the crock pot along with some veggie scraps and vinegar with last week's bones for the "mother" stock. There will be some marrow left on the bones unless you really suckle 'em dry, and even if you get all the marrow out there's still the gelatin/mineral content to gain by boiling the licked-clean bones in a mildly acidic environment.
                          ...also, if you're doing chicken or turkey stocks, you can't possibly get all the marrow out of every little crevice. Trust me, it's sooooooooo worth it. I just save bones and veggie scraps in the freezer during the week and have a ready to go stock kit when needed. It's easy, and basically free (and tres' noms ;0) )!
                          Last edited by mixie; 10-25-2011, 09:28 PM.
                          “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                          "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                          - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mixie View Post
                            I know it sounds intimidating, but it's actually really, really easy. Basically you want to start with your meat, brown it in fat. Add in your veggies and more fat, let that brown, add in a little starch, add in your stock and spices, et voila ;0)

                            And yes, it is absolutely worth extracting the minerals from the bone itself. Remember that the purpose of eating the cow is to get all the nutrients the grass extracted from the soil and the cow extracted from the grass. The cow put all that calcium and a whole lot more into building bone structure--and those are minerals you need for healthy bones and teeth, and smoothly functioning muscles, too.

                            Plus, it's just GD delicious. Good stock has a silky, marrow-y consistency that defines "unctuous". During the cold months I make a good stew about every other week in a big batch and we'll eat from it off and on until it's gone. It's perfect, primal human chow with everything you need in one shot. Beefy, fatty... I'll throw in a couple of those little green thai chilies, too, toward the end for a kick. A good beef stew is food for the soul.

                            I'd roast the marrow bones for eating, for the sake of saving time I'll usually do about four or five pounds of cut marrow bones at a time. Three or four of them at once is usually about all I can handle, but they reheat perfectly well under the broiler during the week. Anyway, when I roast the big batch, there's usually a good layer of liquefied marrow at the bottom of the skillet. I'll dump that into the crock pot along with some veggie scraps and vinegar with last week's bones for the "mother" stock. There will be some marrow left on the bones unless you really suckle 'em dry, and even if you get all the marrow out there's still the gelatin/mineral content to gain by boiling the licked-clean bones in a mildly acidic environment.
                            ...also, if you're doing chicken or turkey stocks, you can't possibly get all the marrow out of every little crevice. Trust me, it's sooooooooo worth it. I just save bones and veggie scraps in the freezer during the week and have a ready to go stock kit when needed. It's easy, and basically free (and tres' noms ;0) )!
                            Alright, alright. You convinced me to try it out. I'm just going to start saving bones after I eat the marrow by throwing them in a freezer bag. Then, I'll make a stock after a week or two.

                            Secondly, I will definitely try that stew recipe at some point. It's starting to get into the cool months, so it will be nice. My strategy before was to add ingredients, water, and put on stove. Nice to have a little more background on that. I wish I could just sit back and have someone make it for me

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Cheers ;0)
                              Yeah, I can see why you'd be puzzled about drinking the "broth" if what you're looking at is basically flavored water. This stuff is glorious ;0)
                              “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                              "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                              - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                              Comment

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