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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ah, I see why you are not following. I'm not attributing BO to toxins being secreted at all. The aside about toxins was simply to point out that they are not some unidentifiable boogeyman concept. Actually there is quite a lot known about these various toxins. There are even some ways to test for them directly to determine if one has accumulated significant doses. When lacking that there are proxies like clearance tests to determine if certain enzyme and pathways are working sufficiently. The thing about what you are asking "exact amounts to determine effect"....well that is going to be nigh on impossible to determine due to each and every individual having a different tolerance level to various toxins AND the millions of combinations of toxins that there are. A single toxin may be easy enough to determine, but now you have to cross that and test that singular one with this other one and this one and this one.....its exponential. Look into a concept called allostatic load. I think its probably the best model to use when considering environmental toxins. Anyhow back to BO... the skin flora is much like the gut biome from my understanding. Both can shift and change in response to different lifestyle choices and exposures. I really don't think that this is a very contentious opinion to hold. It seems logical to me. But I'm not a dermatologist either
    I would like to learn more about toxins. Do you have that 28 page list to send me or any other recommendations?

    I think skin flora does work that way too. And constant vigorous washing of the skin could be somewhat akin to medical-grade antibiotic consumption. Therefore, for the healthiest skin, do not shower too much! And from my experience and knowledge of sweat, you will not smell if you take care of yourself!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DrHackenbush View Post
      I would like to learn more about toxins. Do you have that 28 page list to send me or any other recommendations?

      I think skin flora does work that way too. And constant vigorous washing of the skin could be somewhat akin to medical-grade antibiotic consumption. Therefore, for the healthiest skin, do not shower too much! And from my experience and knowledge of sweat, you will not smell if you take care of yourself!
      The list is part of a series of courses in functional medicine that I took and looks to be copyrighted and whatnot, but I can give you the reference list:

      1. Indoor Air Quality and Personal Exposure Assessment Program, Fact Sheet: Sources and Potential Health Effects of Indoor Air Pollutants, March 24, 2003, Health Effects of Indoor Pollutants
      2. The Medical Biochemistry Page, Dr. Michael W. King, PhD, The Medical Biochemistry Page
      3. Laboratory Evaluations for Integrative and Functional Medicine, 2nd ed., Richard S. Lord, J. Alexander Bralley, Metametrix Institute, Duluth, GA

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      • #18
        Death by rubber duck is a good book.
        Can't remember who wrote it.
        2 guys experimenting on themselves with everyday toxins (including the ones in rubber ducks)

        What I ment with the toxins is that they effect your whole body, and will effect how your skin(the bodies largest organ) will deal with bacteria and what bacteria will grow (think of your gut flora, but on the outside, and also different)

        Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hannakb View Post
          Death by rubber duck is a good book.
          Can't remember who wrote it.
          2 guys experimenting on themselves with everyday toxins (including the ones in rubber ducks)

          What I ment with the toxins is that they effect your whole body, and will effect how your skin(the bodies largest organ) will deal with bacteria and what bacteria will grow (think of your gut flora, but on the outside, and also different)

          Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
          99% of the toxins are not being excreted in sweat. How else are they getting to the skin? I guess they can accidentally be stored there just like anywhere else in the body. Then suppose they're on the skin, even if they affect the bacteria, why would it smell more?

          Do you realize why IBS smells so bad? Ugh, I'm a moron for not mentioning this earlier. There are things stuck in their digestive system; it doesn't even have to be the anal cavity. These things ferment/rot and release constant gas (which is just a form, like solid and liquid) that makes them smell. Farts only happen when these gases are backed up and released instantly. That's not necessarily the case if you have a mostly empty stomach but have rotting pieces of food stuck to your intestines.

          I think you're reaching.

          I'm going to check out the book though.
          Last edited by DrHackenbush; 02-08-2014, 10:34 PM.

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          • #20
            I said they effect your body, not that they were excreted onto your skin.

            If your body's not working properly it effects everything.

            Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Hannakb View Post
              I said they effect your body, not that they were excreted onto your skin.

              If your body's not working properly it effects everything.

              Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
              The toxins can be a problem, but I don't think they're the main problem. If we're still talking about the topic, I'd put macronutrients (fat, protein, carb) above micronutrients (in this case, toxins). Rancid oils, partially digested carbs (from milk and grains), and partially digested proteins (from milk and grain, especially gluten) are three big causes. But in my opinion, the biggest mistake people make is not consuming enough saturated fat. That fat lubricates your intestinal walls. If you don't eat it, you slowly damage your gut (from literal roughage and roughness scraping against it) until you leak gas all day and can't digest anything. The slow, silent killer....

              I suppose binge eating could cause the same phenomenon. Whatever the cause, if your body metabolizes food slowly, that is a bad thing! You need to keep turning things over down there.
              Last edited by DrHackenbush; 02-08-2014, 11:07 PM.

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              • #22
                Why aren't people properly digesting these things?

                What's causing their body's not to function properly?

                Ok, I do understand that no one can digest gluten fully.

                Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                • #23
                  And I thought is was something in gelatin that helped line the intestinal wall, that's why bone broths heal it isn't it?

                  Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hannakb View Post
                    And I thought is was something in gelatin that helped line the intestinal wall, that's why bone broths heal it isn't it?

                    Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                    Although gelatin is 98-99% protein by dry weight, it has less nutritional value than many other complete protein sources. Gelatin is unusually high in the non-essential amino acids glycine and proline (i.e., those produced by the human body), while lacking certain essential amino acids (i.e., those not produced by the human body).
                    Gelatin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    Protein isn't going to lubricate anything.

                    By the way, bone broth is nothing new or special. It's just broth.

                    I'm going to let you in on a little secret: nothing solely Paleo or Primal is any kind of valuable health information. Everything good about primal has been known for a long time and had been documented before Paleo and Primal nutrition came along in the past 10 years. Eat good fats and good proteins? Eat lots of fruits and veggies? Even "avoid grains"? Yes, all of this was known, albeit it wasn't necessarily as popular.
                    Last edited by DrHackenbush; 02-08-2014, 11:39 PM.

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                    • #25
                      The gelatin must be for the actual repairs then.

                      Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hannakb View Post
                        The gelatin must be for the actual repairs then.

                        Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                        It could just be an easy-to-digest food that a sick body won't have to work hard on. I question the extent of it's healing powers.

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                        • #27
                          from your own wiki link:

                          Short chain gelatin peptides are effective in the treatment of stomach ulcers. The peptides enhance resistance of the mucous membrane to ethanol and the effects of stress, causing a twofold reduction in ulcer size and faster healing.[12]
                          for joint repair:

                          Catholic Data: Gelatin works against Arthritis

                          info and links from mark on gelatin for various ailments:

                          Dear Mark: CoQ10, Gelatin, Fruit, and Eggs and LDL | Mark's Daily Apple

                          this might help you about skin and sweat:

                          Discovery Health "How does your skin eliminate waste?"

                          Most of us come with two types of sweat glands: eccrine glands and apocrine glands. Eccrine glands cover the majority of your body and are responsible for the cooling effect of sweating [source: Mayo Clinic]. Eccrine sweat is almost entirely water with a little salt and potassium, but it also contains trace amounts of ammonia, uric acid and urea -- all waste byproducts of the body's metabolism of nitrogen [source: Huang, et al.].
                          Sweat itself has no odor. The smelly effect is the fault of apocrine glands located in the groin, armpits and other hairy body parts. These glands produce sweat that's rich with fatty proteins. Apocrine sweat is still odorless, but bacteria colonies in these warm, moist areas metabolize the proteins, creating that famously foul smell.
                          i bolded that bit because if a person's diet is full of fast-food burgers and domino's cheesy pizza crust, it's akin to garbage and toxins in the body and, simply stated, when excreted by fabp will create a biological environment that smells like ass. no amount of dr. bonner's will cure that.

                          there is NO food "stuck to" or "rotting" inside of anybody. your digestion takes care of all that. that bullshit about rotting meat is woo spouted by vegans and snake-oil hucksters selling "detoxes" and "cleanses". you do understand that ibs is simply an umbrella term for a list of symptoms, not a disease? doctors don't know what's wrong when somebody has trouble in the belleh so just brush it off as ibs. 99% of the time it's from a food intolerance, most often grains, sometimes, dairy, sometimes nightshades, etc.

                          I'm going to let you in on a little secret: nothing solely Paleo or Primal is any kind of valuable health information. Everything good about primal has been known for a long time
                          i'magonna guess you've never heard the phrases "ancestral health" or "ancestral eating"? nobody in the forefront of this paleo/primal movement is pretending to have invented the wheel, however, they ARE combining traditional foodways and lifestyles with new science.

                          many of your posts include, "i think" or "i don't know", or "i'm guessing." ALL the info to help you inform yourself has been covered by mark, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more of it is at your fingertips with a quick google-fu. it's difficult to have a reasoned conversation with somebody who is flailing around in a small dark room.
                          Last edited by noodletoy; 02-09-2014, 11:09 AM. Reason: crap syntax
                          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                          Ernest Hemingway

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                            i bolded that bit because if a person's diet is full of fast-food burgers and domino's cheesy pizza crust, it's akin to garbage and toxins in the body and, simply stated, when excreted by fabp will create a biological environment that smells like ass. no amount of dr. bonner's will cure that.
                            My Aunt eats like crap has been obese since 1972. She sweats almost non-stop even in Winter and if I go to hug her she's damp and smells like bologna. Rotting bologna.

                            5 Star Thread! Would read again!
                            52 year old Male
                            Goal: 185lbs
                            April 10th: 220lbs

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hannakb View Post
                              The gelatin must be for the actual repairs then.

                              Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                              Bone broth contains many beneficial items. Gelatin is one of them with all of its known positive health effect. Glutamine which is frequently used in the treatment of leaky gut. Glucosamine and chondroitin as well. I think some posters are totally missing the forest for the trees when it comes to how these things contribute to health. And especially in how lifestyle and environment contribute to BO. Noodletoy has lots of good links there and makes a good point about things NOT just sitting and rotting in your gut. The only thing "fermenting", not rotting, in your gut is likely various fibers/resistant starch.

                              As an aside on the cleansing effect of sweating I've got a theory on that. I can see where this could be cleansing perhaps not directly in the sweat but by the liberation of waste into the blood stream to be filtered through the kidney and liver when the body has to create turnover/replenish. So it may very well not be that you sweat out a substantial amount of toxins, but they are liberated and excreted none the less as a consequence. Oddly enough I almost always have to void my bladder immediately following a couple of sauna sessions.

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                              • #30
                                if a person's diet is full of fast-food burgers and domino's cheesy pizza crust, it's akin to garbage and toxins in the body and, simply stated, when excreted by fabp will create a biological environment that smells like ass. no amount of dr. bonner's will cure that.
                                Generally, the smell of the person is a good indication of their overall health.

                                When my husband was sick, he smelled terrible. Once he got well, he didn't smell at all. He can even go without deodorant if he wants. I am the same.

                                I notice, for example, that when I have the flu (or food poisoning?), I smell terrible, but once I'm healthy again, I smell fine. It's basically a clean, non-scent (or me-scent which isn't unpleasant).

                                I don't care for most perfumes, and my husband and I use just coconut oil for deodorant (as the antimicrobial properties keep the bacterial load in the arm pit down). No stink, no problems.

                                Most of my family -- who runs itself on all manner of fast foods/bad foods and are usually sick -- basically have to use a lot of soaps, perfumes, deodorants, etc.

                                I tend to prefer sponge bathing overall. I stared doing it in NZ because the uninsulated, very cold bathroom was not a fun place to bathe no matter how much hot water you had. And, it dried the heck out of my skin anyway. So, I started bathing with a wash cloth. I noticed that it did the trick. So, unless I feel really dirty, I just use a wash cloth and warm water. Then, once a week, I wash my hair (usually in the sink).

                                Sometimes, I want to take a bath, though, so I put some coconut oil and epsom salts in the water and enjoy a good, hot soak.

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